Kodoma Koi Farm on eBay/merged threads

[koiczar]

Tony

How about Narita Koi Farm?

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori Would there have been a dealer good enough to have broker that fish, besides Kodama...Once again this would be one of those fishes that would be in a 4 for $100 bin...hahahahahahahaha...

What makes you think Kodama is the only good dealer??

It never would have been in the 4 for $100 bin either.

[Richard Rombold]

It comes down to quality and integrity. For what ever reason Kodoma is allowing his name to be used as a marketing ploy to sell low grade koi to an uneducated market.

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by Richard Rombold It comes down to quality and integrity. For what ever reason Kodoma is allowing his name to be used as a marketing ploy to sell low grade koi to an uneducated market.

The reason $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Oh and did I mention $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yeah, that's it.

[Auntiesue]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar What makes anybody here think they will offer anything better on EBay than they do on their own auction site? Far cry quality-wise from when they first started their site a few years ago. Now, nothin' but crapagoi.

I agree!! We have a very few nice koi that we purchased from his web site many years ago. Something happened back about 2-3 years ago that caused what he was offering on his auction site to be of far less quality. Some even had scars which you would never seen his first frew years on the web. It all started about the same time some new guy came on the scene, upgraded his holding and Q tanks and it seemed that everything went downhill from there. I even emailed Taro long long ago asking him if his focus had changed. So we just simply stopped purchasing from him. It was some time later that we found Kevin....now we are VERY happy campers!!

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori All I know is if some of us look in our collection of koi books there will be 1 or 2 books from this guy. Also would there be a fish called "Loran" without Kodama dealing it...Well this is America, home of the free, home to whoever thinks they can sell a fish on EBay...My best guess to those who use EBay as their dealership, do worry this will be something short lived for him.

Wait, I could be wrong, after all Kodama is published and we all own his books.

[dcny]

Quote: Originally Posted by Russell Peters ... It never would have been in the 4 for $100 bin either.

off topic but.... From what I've read, Loran (or Loulan) was almost culled several times so it's possible that it could have been in one of those bins. Even if the breeder is 99.9% right. There will still be 250 quality koi that slip into the tateshita bin from every parent set. The problem is none of those koi will come close to realizing their potential unless Tony spots it in the bargain bin.

-Dan

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by dcny off topic but.... From what I've read, Loran (or Loulan) was almost culled several times so it's possible that it could have been in one of those bins. Even if the breeder is 99.9% right. There will still be 250 quality koi that slip into the tateshita bin from every parent set. The problem is none of those koi will come close to realizing their potential unless Tony spots it in the bargain bin. -Dan

Almost culled is not the same as culled. It had quality that would have never allowed it in the 4 for $100 bin.

Tateshita are allowed to leave because they don't have, in the breeders eyes, that ultimate quality. They have very high quality indeed. More quality than you will ever find in a 4 for $100 bin.

[JasPR]

Richard, I feel your pain. But Aqui-man is right. No Kodama - no Loran. Kodama has contributed a HUGE amount to what we take for granted as ' the Japanese koi hobby'. But he is, as most of faces to the American market are- a koi dealer. And as a business man, he has gauged the market and knows now how to make money in America- mass marketing of tateshita. This in no way takes away from his ability to recognize great fish. He is a master at being a bird-dog for the wealthy and most serious Japanese collectors. But they do not grow on trees and honestly most of them have passed now so volume business is the target.
Others are now coming to America hoping to provide the 'next level up' from tateshita and willing to give up that part of the market to domestic growers. This is, in my opinion, harder to do as it takes time, money and lots of education to do this. So by definition it is a smaller market. Ironically this smaller market makes the volume market more viable as the US public looks for ' the same thing or kinda the same thing -but cheaper'.
As you professionals on here know, the typical mark up on tateshita is 500-800%. The average mark up on the next level is 300%. And the high class stuff ( rip off artists excluded) have a typical mark up of maybe 50-100%.
But here's the thing- there are A LOT more people willing to pay $150-$275 for a $40 fish than there are people willing to pay $1200 for a $300 fish!
So Kodama is doing nothing different than what Home depot, staples or Lowes has done- going for the volume . And in that, prices my very well fall due to competition as that is the result of volume- IE tighter margin. Now that could be a problem for the domestic breeder. But we are a long way from that margin spread problem at this point.

What this all comes down to is the 'commoditizing of koi' as generic and a movement away from koi as rare art based on levels of rarity and quality.
Still think it's a good idea to leave valuations in the hands of business people?
"Trust me, I'm a koi dealer"!!
JR

[MikeM]

Richard:

I consider it in my personal self-interest for everyone to believe that only koi imported from Japan are worth more than $100, that all the domestic stuff is destined to be crapagoi, and Mat & Brady & you and the rest only produce trash domestics.

You see, I now own 21 koi. There are 7 up in New Jersey. Of the 14 in my home pond, 2 were bred by Brady, one by Mat and one is a homebred pet. So, at the moment, a majority of my koi are domestics. I have no doubt that the very best koi are in Japan. For what fits my wallet, I can get better quality in domestics. There may not be as many to choose from, and it takes a bit more effort to find them, but once they are in my pond folks don't know the Nogami from the McCann unless I tell them... or, they are so knowledgeable that they see the difference of the Matsunosuke genetics.

I really like how it is right now. Equal quality domestics are less expensive and at the high end the bio-security is so carefully maintained that serious health concerns are not an issue... no risk of mixing fish in multiple hands in the delivery chain from farm to home pond. The more Kodama and other dealers in Japan-breds do to maintain the mystique of Japan having a monopoly on quality, the better for my bank account.