Kodoma Koi Farm on eBay/merged threads

[PapaBear]

The selfish side of me agree's with Mikes sentiment while the struggling American entrepeneur in me wishes it weren't true. Perceived value trumps true quality all too often.
If Kodama (or whoever else may follow suit) is successful in diverting good money away from high quality domestics toward imported crapagoi with a "name brand" it will put a dent in a few wallets, but there are some crapagoi dealers on ebay as it is so it may well weed a few of them out.

[JasPR]

Reality check Mike. I am very happy you discovered what Mat is doing in New Jersey. I've been a fan since 2000. But Mat or Brady or Brett are NOT the koi market in America! There are farms , mostly unknown to US consumers, that produce THOUSANDS upon thousands of colored carp for the ornamental pet trade-they are the ones that set the market for competing Japanese tateshita. I would suggest that Petsmart and local garden centers sell 500X the number of fish that Mat and Brady sell in a given year.

The fundamental model behind ALL koi pricing is ,and always has been , about selling lesser fish off the reputation and accomplishments of the top 10% of production. Even Mat and Brady and Brett have 'lesser fish' for sale. That is what supports the price of the higher fish. It is only a few domestic breeders that can price their upper end stock against Japanese middle or upper grade stock. Lets be honest about that.

Mark ups are about the consumer and the consumer has spoken, they want fish that look like show fish for the cheapest price possible.
Last weekend I got a post card in the junk mail inviting me to a wearhouse art sale where I could, and I loosely quote - " Buy reproductions of the masters at reasonable prices and not at exorbident art galley prices". Made me think of the current state of affairs in the koi world ! JR

[dick benbow]

I don't know that anything i would say could add anything new to this thread that hasn't been said already....

The old slogan of let the buyer beware is probably appropriate...hence the importance of KB and other boards to educate those just learning. I also want to credit the first class dealers that thru their efforts bring us seminars like Toshio's and thru years of earned trust have provided a genuine service to the clubs and hobbists who they support.

I too can relate with mike M....I make no apologies for being pro domestic, and have been accused as being president of Mat's fan club ( of which I am honored ).60 % of my collection is domestic and the other is japanese, all of which are from Toshio sakai , save one.

I quess it all comes down to what kodama's business plan is....and how others both here and in japan preceive them based on past experience with doing business with them..

[PapaBear]

One thing I'll give him... at least he isn't pricing his crapagoi like tategoi... but I really don't see how imported speckledigoi are worth any more than ankansas speckledigoi One of the $15 Sanke in particular had enough shimi's to make a frecklefaced country girl envious

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear One thing I'll give him... at least he isn't pricing his crapagoi like tategoi... but I really don't see how imported speckledigoi are worth any more than ankansas speckledigoi One of the $15 Sanke in particular had enough shimi's to make a frecklefaced country girl envious

Those fish look like, k-mart blue light specials . I agree I think that the Kodama's are now selling in volume, many more low grade fish. If you can sell 100,000 koi at a very small profit margin, and sell them quick, you can recoup your original investment quickly, hence lower overhead. When dealers bring in fish, and they have to sit on them for more than 60 days they are losing money, due to tanks being used, water, electricity, food etc... They need to turn them around quickly to make a profit. The longer they sit the less profit they make. But that is when hobbiest can get the best deals, dealers are willing to bargain more on fish that have been sitting at there store for a while.

[aquitori]

What makes you think Kodama is the only good dealer??

Actuallity Russ, there are alot of good dealers out there. He has done alot for the hobby, in that he is bringing koi to the masses and giving a person a chance to experience a Japanese Koi regardless of quality. From coast to coast alot of people have bought fish from him. I bought fish from Kodama before and some of them have went on to win 1st to 2nd place at shows, nothing too big. Will I buy from Kodama again? No...I will never take the risk of buying from pics again.

Duke's big Dainichi Kohaku, it came from Kodama...

Russ, what makes a good dealer a good dealer?

It never would have been in the 4 for $100 bin either.

I still think it would.

[Brutuscz]

From what I've been told...the kodama farm is more of a grow-out facility. He get's them little..grows them out, and re-sells them. Also, he doesn't breed them himself. I have no problem with him doing the ebay thing...all's fair in love, war and koi. It's like buying koi from any dealer...some great stuff, some ok, and some lousy. The skill comes in knowing the difference and making good choices. I have a few koi from Kodama..and I felt the price was good for the quality. I also never felt anything was misrepresented...if anything, they looked much better live than in their photo's.

[Chagoi]

Nancy: You are absolutely correct...with proper QT procedures and current KHV testing and getting results back it takes more time now for the dealer...if the dealer is doing these tests...?

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by Chagoi Nancy: You are absolutely correct...with proper QT procedures and current KHV testing and getting results back it takes more time now for the dealer...if the dealer is doing these tests...?

Yes Brian, one would hope that all dealers are doing the testing now. So I would assume most dealers would have a minimun of 3 week Qt, once samples have been drawn and sent to lab, it takes about 10 working days to get results.

[Sangreaal]

I actually think that Kodama is doing a great favor to our domestic breeders by offering crapagoi to the 150 million members on eBay and accentuating the fact that the koi are "Born in Japan." If you haven't already, go look at their offerings--there isn't a one I'd pay over $100 shipping on (even if the fish were gratis!), and not one of them can compete with the quality and beauty of Richard's offerings (or Brett's or Brady's if they had fish on eBay concurrently with Kodama's so the masses can compare for themselves all on the same site). Anyone that wants pretty fish in their pond, whether a neophyte or serious collector, will always pick the fish that most pleases their eye or shows promise that it may, in the future, become pleasing to the eye.

Do Kodama's offerings on eBay accomplish this?

Not with what they have on there right now.

There is an art to selling single fish on eBay. If they aren't exceptional in some way (price or quality), they just won't sell. Offer crap koi with the highest shipping rates in the nation and do you really expect for them to be able to compete with domestic breeders or local dealers that can beat them on quality and shipping any day of the week?

Not gonna happen.

Marie