Kodoma Koi Farm on eBay/merged threads

[jnorth]

Ok in case you are wondering why I merged 3 threads together....I don't see the need to have 3 threads talking about the same man/company. Most of it has been negative. Koi-Bito is not now and never has been the Better Business Bureau. While I understand that people have legimate problems with certain companies this is really not the place to air them. Please stick to specifics when posting. Blanket statements such as "Company A only sells junk" is not acceptable. If you don't like a company then I suggest that you don't buy from them or recommend them to anyone. Please understand this is not aimed at any particular individual and is a general statement as to why this thread has been merged. If you have any questions or concerns about this then please PM me. Thanks .

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by dizzyfish I think this Kodama wholesale is sort of seperate from the auction site. I think they will be mostly trying to sell the 5-6" and 7-8" to a wide variety of koi outlets. (water gardens, pet stores, koi dealers, etc.) So people all around the country will have the opportunity to pick over Japanese koi in person. It should be good for the Japanese breeders. Mitch

Actually Mitch it is mostly only good for Kodama. What he will do, and is doing,is buy the low grade of Tosai at around 1" and then grow them out in Hawaii to get the most for them. He will pay pennies for them and make dollars. The breeders really get nothing.

[saratogatan]

Personally, how Kodoma conduct his business in koi is strictly his business. He has his plan and we can only wish him the best. Whether we like him or not is another issue. Yet, I think we should focus on the real deal: koi he is selling, or, on the flip side, the money in our wallet. We should focus on the quality/value proposition, and help get hobbyist educated.

Beside tonis's suggestion for new comers in this hobby to hock up with trust worthy dealers, I like to recommended that newcomers get themselves hocked up with some clubs, and someone who truelly know koi. Afterall, asking dealers to look after your interest/money could be like asking fox to watch your hen coop. Koi dealer need to make a living, we the hobbyist need to watch our $$$, if we know what we are doing, we can keep that balance, and everyone will be happy.

There are too many koi hobbyists who know not an iota in koi keeping and appreciation. I have run into many hobbyists who have been replenishing their pond a few times every year. I believe most of the koi hobbyist in the USA fall into this category. If the norm is kept the way it is today, there will be more than enough insane buyers to drive you up the wall.

stan

[P0nDSkUm]

Quote: Originally Posted by saratogatan Personally, how Kodoma conduct his business in koi is strictly his business. He has his plan and we can only wish him the best. Whether we like him or not is another issue. Yet, I think we should focus on the real deal: koi he is selling, or, on the flip side, the money in our wallet. We should focus on the quality/value proposition, and help get hobbyist educated. Beside tonis's suggestion for new comers in this hobby to hock up with trust worthy dealers, I like to recommended that newcomers get themselves hocked up with some clubs, and someone who truelly know koi. Afterall, asking dealers to look after your interest/money could be like asking fox to watch your hen coop. Koi dealer need to make a living, we the hobbyist need to watch our $$$, if we know what we are doing, we can keep that balance, and everyone will be happy. There are too many koi hobbyists who know not an iota in koi keeping and appreciation. I have run into many hobbyists who have been replenishing their pond a few times every year. I believe most of the koi hobbyist in the USA fall into this category. If the norm is kept the way it is today, there will be more than enough insane buyers to drive you up the wall. stan

Stan,
You're absolutely right! Before signing up with this forum, I've been reading up on other's threads and found out that there are a few individuals here that have no business in the hobby. They're rude and nowhere near humble. They have no patience for new comers and think 1 year is lots of time to learn the trade. This is wrong and someone needs to speak up and have this type of attitude stopped! S/he continuously puts breeders, dealers, new comers/youngsters, and other's kois down. I may get banned from this forum for speaking my mind, but that's OK! At least we know where this forum stand as far as koi keeping.
No matter what Kodama Farm brings in, they should keep their rude comments to themselves. These individuals all have there addresses on file and rest a sure, they're not hard to find! I've given them kois and I can easily take them away!

Shiro

[Nancy M.]

Shiro
Didn't you get a red card today? And you still have not told us who you are?We have all figured out you are located in Hawaii... How long have you been in the hobby? how many high quality koi do you own? How big is your pond? Are you a hobbiest or a dealer? You came to a serious koi board, were we speak the truth about koi, if you do not want honest answers, then perhaps you are on the wrong board. No one (at least me) has said that Kodama does not have any high quality fish, we/ I have said that the ones on ebay are chuppa (crapagoi). If that offends you sorry, but that is a true assesment of those koi on ebay.

[Nancy M.]

Quote: Originally Posted by P0nDSkUm Stan, You're absolutely right! Before signing up with this forum, I've been reading up on other's threads and found out that there are a few individuals here that have no business in the hobby. They're rude and nowhere near humble. They have no patience for new comers and think 1 year is lots of time to learn the trade. This is wrong and someone needs to speak up and have this type of attitude stopped! S/he continuously puts breeders, dealers, new comers/youngsters, and other's kois down. I may get banned from this forum for speaking my mind, but that's OK! At least we know where this forum stand as far as koi keeping. No matter what Kodama Farm brings in, they should keep their rude comments to themselves. These individuals all have there addresses on file and rest a sure, they're not hard to find! I've given them kois and I can easily take them away! Shiro

Now what does that mean Shiro...

[jbolding]

You seem to be the newest new comer to come shake the bee's nest.

Most on this board are very entrenched in their ideas. It appears you see that as condescending, but if you sit back and try not to take the posts personally you will see that most here would rather help than insult you. There are many on this board with 20 plus years in the hobby, perennial show winners, certified judges, dealers, breeders, and multiple other specialties. I consider myself a beginner here, and I have been at this for 6-7 years now. Their is a lot to learn, and you can advance pretty far in your knowledge by just sitting back and watching. But writing inflammatory posts won't help anyone. There are ongoing posts about the changes we are seeing in how koi are marketed (on lack of change). Don't be offended by it we are just trying to have some influence on the hobby to improve it for every ones enjoyment.

Either way if you stay you will go with the flow or get beaten by the tide. If you do want to actively engage in posting on the board I would be forth coming and honest. If you don't you will probably not want to be hear long, as this will not be a pleasant place to post.

[dubtaco]

Quote: Originally Posted by P0nDSkUm These individuals all have there addresses on file and rest a sure, they're not hard to find! I've given them kois and I can easily take them away! Shiro

That seems like a rather hostile statement, I hope you do not represent Kodoma.


Wishing I had a head scratch emoti thingy, as that was just plain old foolish..

[bekko]

Quote: There are ongoing posts about the changes we are seeing in how koi are marketed (on lack of change).

I don't think any of this represents much of a change in the way koi are marketed. Kodama is certainly not the only one bringing in mid-grade koi from Japan and selling them into the water garden market. There are also others who hold the fish long enough to put on some growth, albeit Kodama is now be the largest player in this arena. I do not know weather or not Kodama still carries fish which are of the same quality as those they used to sell out of California, but I suspect they still have some very nice fish as well.

Let's face it. The market for high-quality koi is very limited and few are willing to pay the price. If Kodama carried nothing but high-quality fish they would not need the new expanded facilities because those facilities cannot be justified by the demand from the high-grade market segment. Has Kodama's overall (average) koi quality declined. Of course, that is clearly part of their new business plan. Should the Koi Bito crowd and other serious koi hobbyists be offended and upset by this turn of events? No. You can still buy high-grade fish at the price you are accustomed to - if not from Kodama then from another high-end dealer. You should be happy that the water garden folks may be able to get mid-grade koi at a lower price.

It will be interesting to see whether the Kodama production plan for mid-grade koi works over the long run. The advantage they have over producers growing koi out in Japan is the year-round growing conditions in Hawaii. Operating costs will not be lower in Hawaii. Land is a precious commodity in Hawaii, but Kodama's potato field lease is unlikely to have been available at a comparable price in Japan. Shipping from Japan to the US mainland is cheaper than the two-step shipping (Japan to Hawaii, then Hawaii to mainland). However, the fish are smaller on the Japan to Hawaii leg so the shipping cost per individual may be similar. For mid-grade koi, shipping costs become a big deal and a significant factor.

Potential competition would be Japanese joint ventures in Viet Nam, Malaysia, Indonesia, and other parts of Southeast Asia. They have much lower production costs, but higher shipping costs. Fascinating and complex economics.

Is all this good or bad for the koi hobby in the western world? I think it's good. If you can put a mid-grade koi into the US market at a lower cost, then you entice more people to upgrade from the low-grade Ozark koi.

Is all this good or bad for mainland koi producers? I think it's bad or perhaps neutral. It whittles away at what little competitive advantage domestic producers have through lower transportation costs. On the other hand, anything that is good for the koi hobby as a whole is good for domestic producers.

-stevehopk in

[P0nDSkUm]

I am from Hawaii, but in no way affiliated with Kodama Koi Farm. Nancy, I meant nothing by it. Just said it to give all the bad mouths here something to think about. No worries, unless karma hits home! Lots of people that visit this forum is not as fortunate as most of you, but that doesn't mean you can rub it in their faces. Be humble! It goes well with koi keeping. I'm just a young pup who saw a few picking on another youngster and thought I'd speak up since he decided to bow down. I don't have a huge koi pond, but more of a guppy puddle. So, with that in mind, does that make me unworthy or less of a person because I don't have the best? I've got a speckled koi from Walmart, are you going to insult me? Watch what you say cause it may bite you in the ars one of these days. This was suppose to be the "funnest" forum around, but I see a lot of high ego, followers here.

Shiro