pond temp is 48.2* . they want food...

[moikoi]

if they fed below 55*. if i wait for 55*,it may take another 4-6 weeks.

[MCA]

but this is not about how we would feel....this is what is the least risk to the koi. no food for additional weeks at 50F poses what risk? surely not one from TAN in the pond ....

I stopped feeding Jan 1. Our pond has been between 50F and 57F during January (so very glad I got a solar pool cover!) with air domes and Nexus churning away. If koi are hungry, they have algae on pond walls. Today is first possible day for them to get WG pellets. And since we are have a sleet festival today that ain't gonna happen. They will be just fine right though all of Feb without pellets if cold temps continue. No pellets until water maintains 55F and no cold front is headed our way.

Tough love!!!

[mitten]

Another thread from folks with mild winters.

My fish outside may go 16 - 20 weeks without food; it only went down to 15F this morning, 6 was expected.

The fish in my barn are getting wheat germ at 56F.

[MikeM]

I am not experienced in cold weather koikeeping, so I'll not answer whether you can feed your koi. As to whether you need to feed them, I see no reason to do so. 6 to 8 weeks without food in cool temperatures is not a problem. I force mine to fast for 6 weeks at temperatures above 60F. Nobody is starving.

[MikeM]

Mick: We got some cold this week! All the way down to 42F at my house one morning. The pond went all the way down to 62F with the Bakki running. These Florida Koi are shivering.

[farne230]

Our water temps fluxuate a few degrees between 48 and 54f. It has been above 50f. They are active and hungry but fear feeding. I have Wheatgerm available. Should I? Lots of algae to eat.

[carolyn swanson]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeM I am not experienced in cold weather koikeeping, so I'll not answer whether you can feed your koi. As to whether you need to feed them, I see no reason to do so. 6 to 8 weeks without food in cool temperatures is not a problem. I force mine to fast for 6 weeks at temperatures above 60F. Nobody is starving.

I got a postcard from your fish just the other day. They asked me to break some legs if necessary to get a good meal out of you. They asked me to sneak in some Hikari (all-season).

[PapaBear]

I look at it this way. They won't eat if they aren't hungry and they won't be hungry if their metabolism is too slow. Carp have been feeding themselves in the wild without our help or interference for millenia. Their metabolism knows when they can and should eat and when they should not. Our only real concern is with water quality as our ponds are a closed system. If we overfeed (or attempt to) the minimal biological activity in our filters would cause toxic water conditions and THAT is the primary danger to Koi in cold water. "Keep your water well and your water will keep your fish".
When I check the mechanical filtration on my pond in the winter guess what I find. Green Algae Turds ...LOTS of them. Supplimenting the algae (roughage) with a few pellets as their appetites accelerate doesn't harm them and we dont' have any health issues.
If I tossed food in the pond right now a few of them might eat a pellet or two, but no more than that as the water is around 40-45 deg (it snowed again yesterday and more is on the way). At around 45 deg they become more active and munch on the algae in the deepest part of the pond... which stays VERY short. A few degrees more and they come into the shallower water to graze. If they graze in the shallows more than a day or two I'll go ahead and feed them sparingly to suppliment the algae.
I wish we could have some underwater cameras on one of the frozen over, snow topped mud ponds in Niigata with only an air hole or two to keep the gases vented off. If we could watch the Koi under the ice I'll bet we would see them rooting in the mud bottom for worms, etc... Could it be that the success of Dianichi's long winter fast is just as much a body building exercise via foraging as it is a semi-bolemic diet???

[JasPR]

Ok, let's entitle this post of mine- when you KNOW you are getting too close to your koi!


Koi are not people.
Koi are not ‘hungry’ in winter
Koi DO have a feeding impulse as they are scavengers and highly conditioned creatures to stimuli--- like people and light from above.
Koi do not know how long they have not been fed or when they will eat again, but their bodies know what time of year it is. Just like birds know when to fly south and also when to fly back home.


When you can and can not damage a koi with food-------
As I said, koi do not know when to eat and when nature is setting them up for culling! Here are the facts and you can take it from there-
Koi CAN digest down to 45 F.
Koi are about 2 degrees ‘warmer’, metabolically speaking , than their surrounding water.
So in theory, you can feed a koi down to 43 F and not kill it immediately/directly.
Old school suggested 50 F because once you drop below that level, the temperature tends to become progressively more unpredictable into winter. That is the simplest rule of thumb.
Koi become ‘infected’ by being stressed and by being subjected to opportunist pathogens. One very common route of entry is through the gut and so with fermenting / slow moving food, ythis is one common dynamic of winter dropsy. So it is best to leave a koi’s gut empty or with only easily digested and easily assimilated food during winter.
A koi is not a dog, a kid or a cat. It is a cold blooded animal and it absolutely, positively can not operate certain systems below ideal or optimal temperatures. And a koi’s entire winter survival strategy is to SHIFT metabolism to ‘ necessary functions ONLY’ so that they can remain in stasis and draw on stored reserves. Ironically, pumping them with food in the ‘limbo temperatures’ will slow growth the following spring. The food moves much slower through the gut as the temperature drops until finally it remains idol or until sun or thaw allows for defecation. And studies have shown that the amount of energy it takes to capture, ingest, digest and assimilate protein in sub-par temperature ranges is actually MORE energy spent then energy derived from the meal!
The truth is- koi are seasonal animals with energy diverted each pre-season for needs of the season ahead. Right now, your koi have stored energy in their liver, kidney, brain and muscle mass. The amount is based on what you fed them in August, September and October. You have also set their gonad systems up for eggs already for this coming spring. And soon energy ingested will be used to further develop the eggs and sperm. For now however, your koi are in and out of stasis due to the ‘limbo temperatures’.
If you think about this for a minute, you can’t really do much FOR a koi in the limbo range right now- except make yourself feel good. The body dynamic is set and on auto pilot. And you can ‘potentially’ do harm- long term or short term depending on pond design and future winter action.
So there is a ton of literature out there regarding winter dropsy, fatty liver disease, choman ( ovarian cancer) and the ruining of koi figures. Against this you will have your own human side. Scientist and psychologists call this a desire to Anthropomorphize. Meaning we have a desire to transfer human qualities to animals and plant life. The idea that koi are ‘hunger’ is a human interpretation. Koi become far more conditioned to feeding than have a need to avoid starvation. It is true that a koi can starve just like any other animal but in ALL my years in this hobby and having visited and treated ponds all over the world, I have NEVER seen a koi that has starved to death. I have seen MANY koi that have been over fed, inappropriately fed and have died or become disease from being ‘over loved’. Kinda like that 38 pound cat that the little old lady feeds so it won’t starve to death- as if!!!
Feed you koi well in the two most important seasons. Lay off the mega urge in the other two seasons. If you MUST feed - feed the fat cat and then give your koi very small amounts of wheatgerm pre-soaked pellets or very fresh animal protein- maybe every other day in order to cooperate with the sporadic movement through the long koi gut.
So please allow me to leave my own anthropomorphic image! Remember the Tin Man in the Wizard of OZ? "Oil me, Oil me" slipping out of this frozen lips? THAT is the koi gut in winter. JR

[JanT]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Ok, let's entitle this post of mine- when you KNOW you are getting too close to your koi! Koi are not people. Koi are not ‘hungry’ in winter Koi DO have a feeding impulse as they are scavengers and highly conditioned creatures to stimuli--- like people and light from above. Koi do not know how long they have not been fed or when they will eat again, but their bodies know what time of year it is. Just like birds know when to fly south and also when to fly back home. When you can and can not damage a koi with food------- As I said, koi do not know when to eat and when nature is setting them up for culling! Here are the facts and you can take it from there- Koi CAN digest down to 45 F. Koi are about 2 degrees ‘warmer’, metabolically speaking , than their surrounding water. So in theory, you can feed a koi down to 43 F and not kill it immediately/directly. Old school suggested 50 F because once you drop below that level, the temperature tends to become progressively more unpredictable into winter. That is the simplest rule of thumb. Koi become ‘infected’ by being stressed and by being subjected to opportunist pathogens. One very common route of entry is through the gut and so with fermenting / slow moving food, ythis is one common dynamic of winter dropsy. So it is best to leave a koi’s gut empty or with only easily digested and easily assimilated food during winter. A koi is not a dog, a kid or a cat. It is a cold blooded animal and it absolutely, positively can not operate certain systems below ideal or optimal temperatures. And a koi’s entire winter survival strategy is to SHIFT metabolism to ‘ necessary functions ONLY’ so that they can remain in stasis and draw on stored reserves. Ironically, pumping them with food in the ‘limbo temperatures’ will slow growth the following spring. The food moves much slower through the gut as the temperature drops until finally it remains idol or until sun or thaw allows for defecation. And studies have shown that the amount of energy it takes to capture, ingest, digest and assimilate protein in sub-par temperature ranges is actually MORE energy spent then energy derived from the meal! The truth is- koi are seasonal animals with energy diverted each pre-season for needs of the season ahead. Right now, your koi have stored energy in their liver, kidney, brain and muscle mass. The amount is based on what you fed them in August, September and October. You have also set their gonad systems up for eggs already for this coming spring. And soon energy ingested will be used to further develop the eggs and sperm. For now however, your koi are in and out of stasis due to the ‘limbo temperatures’. If you think about this for a minute, you can’t really do much FOR a koi in the limbo range right now- except make yourself feel good. The body dynamic is set and on auto pilot. And you can ‘potentially’ do harm- long term or short term depending on pond design and future winter action. So there is a ton of literature out there regarding winter dropsy, fatty liver disease, choman ( ovarian cancer) and the ruining of koi figures. Against this you will have your own human side. Scientist and psychologists call this a desire to Anthropomorphize. Meaning we have a desire to transfer human qualities to animals and plant life. The idea that koi are ‘hunger’ is a human interpretation. Koi become far more conditioned to feeding than have a need to avoid starvation. It is true that a koi can starve just like any other animal but in ALL my years in this hobby and having visited and treated ponds all over the world, I have NEVER seen a koi that has starved to death. I have seen MANY koi that have been over fed, inappropriately fed and have died or become disease from being ‘over loved’. Kinda like that 38 pound cat that the little old lady feeds so it won’t starve to death- as if!!! Feed you koi well in the two most important seasons. Lay off the mega urge in the other two seasons. If you MUST feed - feed the fat cat and then give your koi very small amounts of wheatgerm pre-soaked pellets or very fresh animal protein- maybe every other day in order to cooperate with the sporadic movement through the long koi gut. So please allow me to leave my own anthropomorphic image! Remember the Tin Man in the Wizard of OZ? "Oil me, Oil me" slipping out of this frozen lips? THAT is the koi gut in winter. JR

I love your 'way with words', JR. Needed to be expressed on this thread.
You are the Simon Cowell of Koi, and I mean that in a very good way.