Soliciting opinions on KHV screening

[Spike Cover]

Kari,

Thanks for the reply. I can see there is one thing that I failed to mention in the original post that's causing some confusion (I'm so close to this thing that I sometimes forget that others aren't - sorry).

This will be a certification by independent vets. It will have nothing to do with AKCA or Project KHV save that they financed the writing of the program, which BTW will also be written by vets.

We plan to GIVE the program materials to any vet who agrees to certify only those dealers that meet the minimum requirements specified in the final program.

All the best,
Spike

[RRB2]

Sorry Spike, as much as I support your goal and appreciate your hard work, I will never trust any retailer to properly do the things you are asking them to do.

Many retailers are completely honest and do try every hard to do the right things, but there are just too many places the system can break down.

All the certificates in the world mean nothing once you bring a koi home. You still have to do the full quarintine and probably the blood work too before you can feel comfortable adding it to your pond.

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by RRB2 All the certificates in the world mean nothing once you bring a koi home. You still have to do the full quarintine and probably the blood work too before you can feel comfortable adding it to your pond.

Perhaps then part of the program can include having the certified dealers pass out literature that A. Explains the program and B. Includes recommendations for the purchaser on proper qt procedures when they get their koi home. It's all about education.

[Spike Cover]

Quote: Originally Posted by RRB2 Sorry Spike, as much as I support your goal and appreciate your hard work, I will never trust any retailer to properly do the things you are asking them to do. Many retailers are completely honest and do try every hard to do the right things, but there are just too many places the system can break down. All the certificates in the world mean nothing once you bring a koi home. You still have to do the full quarintine and probably the blood work too before you can feel comfortable adding it to your pond.

Hello whoever you are,

Our best shot at bringing some confidence to this whole thing is to enlist competent, independent third parties to do the certification. That's why the vets will do the certifying.

Regarding home quarantine, that is the ONLY thing under our (hobbyists') control.

Best,
Spike

[MikeM]

I'm not so concerned about the leading dealers around the country. They know what it means to their future if they have a KHV incident. They observed Yume Koi.

The concern is the literally hundreds of dealers who primarily carry domestic crapagoi and imports from across Asia... and sell most as Japanese. I do not trust them and if I do not know the vet involved, I'd not trust the vet. I sit on the board of the local humane society. We used to give vouchers for free spay/neuter to adopters. We created a clinic with our own staff vets after an investigation showed that 40% of the vouchers were bought by vets for 50% of face value and turned in to us for full reimbursement. Those vets did not mind certifying they had performed surgeries they had not performed for about $35 profit. I don't trust vets I don't know.

Bottom line: The certification would be meaningless to me unless backed up by somebody reliable who is ready to put their reputation on the line.

[Spike Cover]

Quote: Originally Posted by jnorth Perhaps then part of the program can include having the certified dealers pass out literature that A. Explains the program and B. Includes recommendations for the purchaser on proper qt procedures when they get their koi home. It's all about education.

All good stuff. The part about explaining the program will certainly be included. A prototype handout and a web site with such an explanation are planned.

The dealers and vets (market research) told us, "It's all about marketing" but I think their definition of marketing was predominantly education.

Spike

[Spike Cover]

Here’s a very brief description of the program we currently envision:

The project under consideration is one where a team of qualified veterinarians would develop a program with which koi dealerships may be certified to be operating under best health practices relating to koi herpesvirus. The program is intended to be implemented only by qualified veterinarians that are familiar with the materials developed. Those veterinarians will be granted free use of all program materials if they agree to only certify dealerships that meet the specified minimum requirements of the Program. Veterinarians will set their own fees for services rendered and certificates of compliance will be issued at their sole discretion.

The program materials will include a manual containing all the minimum requirements of the program including samples of each document required and will allow tailoring of the program to fit the individual circumstances of the various dealerships.

Additionally, a web site is planned containing information and promotional materials for the Program including how dealers and veterinarians may enroll in the Program

Spike

[RRB2]

If every retailer and every vet was totally honest, the system still can not be trusted.

At every step of the way, there are too many koi being handled every day, too many opportunities for a careless moment. Just picture a typical day at a retail facility and think of all the potential for problems, then picture a load of new arriving koi. They need to be unloaded, unpacked, handled & checked for shipping problems, moved to temporary quarters, sorted and then probably moved again before they settle in. The handlers do the best they can, but they get tired and things can get over looked.

It is not difficult to see when a koi with a problem could easily spread it around and I do not believe that any dealer will test “every” handled fish much less destroy an entire shipment because of a positive antibody test.

Also, I agree with MikeM that there as long as there is no oversight or consequence to issuing a faulty certificate, it’s useless.

Just my opinion,

Sorry I forgot to sign my first post.

Ron Boedeker

[Spike Cover]

Ron,

So what do you suggest as an alternative?

Spike

[karipeters]

I think the point of this may be that education would be encouraged, and there is never a down side to that. Clearly, it is not possible to avoid fraud - we all know it happens in the Koi dealer community. But I do like to think that a majority of any (general) group of people will be doing the right thing to the best of their ability, and this can improve the hobby all around. There are way too many variable to expect a 90% success rate, but is that the goal?? It could greatly improve things.

The hobby and business thrives when people are educated.

(end of sermon...thanks be to god...amen)