economics and KHV

[Brutuscz]

You simply can't justify it for beginners. If it's expensive and a pain in the butt...you simply wont enter the hobby. If I bought $50 worth of koi to start...and they all died from khv..guess what? No more koi. Switch to goldfish or something else. The purpose of a hobby is for enjoyment..if the enjoyment is removed right at the start, then many will jump ship to something else. The KHV problem is for those of us who specifically want koi as a hobby, a pet and an investment. For the average fish keeper or ponder...it is really too much trouble.

[Steve E]

I pretty much agree with what most are saying about the new hobbyist and costs. But what type of koi keeper are we talking about here? If it is the average person who has just had a liner pond-in-a-kit installed, then they are probably not interested in qt. I know that my two neighbors with AS type ponds are not in the least bit interested in qt or in treating sick/injured fish. So qt for, or even information about khv is not something they will listen to or are interested in. They look upon fish as replaceable, throw them into the pond and they either live or die.

Now for the individual who has become interested in higher quality koi and maybe in showing...These folks are receptive to talk about water quality, disease, koi selection, and disease prevention. These folks who are new to what we here on this board enjoy, they are the ones who will build a good quarantine system. They are the ones who will understand the expense and the justification for spending the money.

So, Yes we can justify the expense depending on where the new hobbyist is in the hobby.

Steve

[MikeM]

I think folks have accurately described a substantial portion of the pondkeeping hobby. But I think it is short-sighted to take a "can't do anything about it" attitude. The idea that high-end koikeepers just have to be resigned to taking care of themselves is rather like the attitude taken toward AIDS in the mid-1980s. We all need to recognize that all who have koi have an interest in everyone addressing the problem.

The challenge is all those pondkeepers who will not quarantine. We can talk about it, but they aren't going to go to the trouble and they will continue to purchase without regard to the source. (There are many mid-level koikeepers who do not quarantine, but at least many are careful about the source.) Their fish are a reservoir of latent carriers. Unless you isolate yourself from others in the hobby, eventually the virus will travel to your pond... Or, we all do something about it.

There has been an ongoing debate about a KHV vaccine, and the fact that fish vaccines are notoriously temporary. There is concern that a vaccine will create a false sense of security, that a live vaccine presents a risk of spreading the disease, and many more reasons to look in other directions. I applaud the Project KHV emphasis on education. That is something the hobby can do... educate its own members. But I think efforts to develop a vaccine should be supported ...aggressively supported, by the commercial side of the hobby. I know of no other means to get some level of control over the problem in the lower-end of pondkeeping, and that is where all of our collections are most threatened IMO. It's the guy who borrows a net and you don't disinfect thoroughly enough, not the dealer who has taken every safeguard to protect his reputation. It's not exposure at a show where all the fish handlers are exercising great care, it's the sweet lady down the street who offered to check things out while you are on vacation.

We have to develop ways to help those who will not help themselves... in our own self-interest.

[mstrseed]

I must not be the typical hobbyist. Even back with my original water garden with my plants (no rocks ) . I had a Q-tank..

Why, when I saw my real Koi (not the ones at the Japanese gardens) I fell in love. Living art swimming where I could look at it anytime I wanted.

Sure my first koi were 5 for $100.(domsetic from Brett) Then bought some $ 50 imports and a $350 special order which died 7 days later (tancho showa). Later additions from Brett a bit more then the $$$$$$ (because I was a gift cert from him )

Now I spend all my budget for 1 koi a year, now mind you not what some of you spend but for ratholing lunch money it what I can afford to spend and loose.

Like I said early on or did I???? A bit different...........

Serious hobbyist.....getting there.

[PapaBear]

I really do appreciate your take on this whole thing, but it is a problem that won't be easy to get a handle on.
Serious hobbiests, High end importers, trustworthy domestic breeders, etc... are vastly outnumbered by those who either don't know or don't care, and that problem isn't an eay one to address in an effective way.
Your AIDS analogy is a good one. At the outset it was just another "social disease" limited to specific "lifestyles"... or so it seemed to many. While carelessness in personal conduct was and is the main problem, innocent bystanders began succumbing as well via a multitude of seemingly innocuous accidents of fate and a few millions dead later here we are.
Serious hobbiests can insulate ourselves by carefully quarantining all entrants to our ponds, only purchasing from trusted dealers and breeders with stringent bio controls, and "keeping to our own kind" via clubs, etc... but that won't make the problem go away. It will only delay the impact.
While I don't hold out much hope for a proven vaccine any time soon, it is worth the effort. At a minimum the research will teach us much. But only those who are aware in the first place. IF it were possible to spread the word to the masses about KHV, what would the net result be? For the average layperson it would simply translate to "don't buy Koi".
Considering the potential economic impact to domestic and foreign breeders alike I think any pipe dreams of a media blitz to raise public awareness is DOA. That leaves it up to people like us to use Forums like this, word of mouth, club activities, and the like. A very grass roots effort, but likely the only effective means available to us at this time.

[bekko]

Quote: So how do we make education and compliance something other than a protection of investment

We all support KHV education campaigns for hobbyists and everyone in the marketing chain. But, education does not guarantee compliance.

That farmer in Vietnam wants to sell his 3-inch koi quickly before KHV hits again. His fish may pass through the tanks of wholesalers in Hanoi, Singapore and Los Angeles before they arrive at a pet store and are sold to a water gardener near you. At every step, the fish may be mixed with similar fish from other sources. At every step, they are trying to sell the fish quickly before they die. 'Quarantine' ain't in their vocabulary and diagnostics is out of the question.

As noted, getting the water gardener to do quarantine and diagnostics is going to be a hard sell because the fish can be replaced many times over for less than the cost of a quarantine system. Further, quarantine and diagnostics are just a hassle For others in the marketing chain (high-end dealers excluded), quarantine and diagnostics would create a competitive disadvantage and quickly push them away from koi.

In my humble opinion, there are only two ways this situation can play out.

1) The emerging status quo. Voluntary quarantine and diagnostics for high-end fish but with occasional outbreaks nonetheless (at least until the diagnostics become bullet-proof). An unknown, and possibly large, number of undiagnosed outbreaks in water gardens.

2) Bureaucratic intervention. Listing KHV as a reportable disease under O.I.E. and APHIS importation regulations similar to those for SVC. Voluntary quarantine and diagnostics for high-end fish with less-frequent outbreaks. A dramatic decrease in undiagnosed outbreaks in water gardens.

-s tev