Mr. Ly: Reasonable Entry as Koi Person of the Year

[Brutuscz]

I understand the attachment. I also have 2 dogs and a parrot. But, if I'm paying 20k to get my fish back...it better be a Great white shark and not a low quality koi. I stand by my statement...guy is a nimrod.
I respect the principles involved...but not the ridiculous waste of money. If he was your personal friend...what would YOU have said to him?
I think my conversation would have started with...Dude..are you insane? $20,000 for some lousy fish...get a life. Then, it would have gotten insulting...lol.
Just my opinion.

[aquitori]

I know the guy wants to prove his point by taking it to court, but man there are hobbyist out there killing $50,000 fish. If I found out that it would cost me $20,000 in legal fees to get my fish back I would say keep them then.

[koicluboftheair]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori I know the guy wants to prove his point by taking it to court, but man there are hobbyist out there killing $50,000 fish. If I found out that it would cost me $20,000 in legal fees to get my fish back I would say keep them then.

Well Aquitori,
Obviously Mr. Ly loves the hobby enough to suffer the expense and fight City Hall to stay in it.

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by koicluboftheair Well Aquitori, Obviously Mr. Ly loves the hobby enough to suffer the expense and fight City Hall to stay in it.

You have a point. People will go out of the way to save their favorite pet I guess...

[koicluboftheair]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori You have a point. People will go out of the way to save their favorite pet I guess...

In the process I believe he has protected the hobby from a lot of propaganda about koi put out from regulators and other business interests in Maine and other states:

" "The amount of wild and native brook trout in Maine, in my opinion, as a fisherman, is the reason I go there. I think you folks, by all means, protect that resource however you can. It's truly one of a kind," said Dan Hall, a Trout Unlimited member in Hudson, N.H.
Sean Smith in Exeter, N.H., said that as a guide, the "one-of-a-kind" nature of
Maine's wild trout waters is something he seeks out. He said the stringent laws
in Maine concerning possession of invasive species make sense.
"It sounds pretty far-fetched that someone would have some in their tank and
dump them. But nothing is that far-fetched in this world," Smith said. "They
decide to flush them down the toilet because they think it's dead. Then, the
next thing you know, there is live carp getting back into the watershed."
Tom Juntras, owner of Mountain Road Fly Shop in Raymond, N.H., said the public
can't be trusted to keep invasive species in Maine, if, for no other reason,
than because some simply do not know the laws.
"People keeping fish like that in a tank at home is fine, but, unfortunately, you have these people who have the mindset that they don't
want to keep it anymore," Juntras said. "Most of them do not even have a clue.
They wouldn't even think they did something wrong if they let it go in a river."
Ly said he did not know the environmental laws concerning invasive species --
and that's why he had the illegal fish in his restaurant for 15 years.
No matter which side of the debate over Ly's fish you are on, the case may have
helped educate people about something they hadn't considered before:
Maine's trout waters are more than fuel for the eco-tourism wheel. They are
symbols, sacred passageways, signs of salvation for fishermen, Indians, and
anyone lucky enough to see a wild brook trout.
We can all hope that at least some of the waters on that list remain home to the
wild brook trout, when so many of those cold-water sanctuaries are vanishing.
How many fishermen have felt their imagination catch fire when they caught and
released a wild brook trout in Maine, charmed for a few seconds by the magic in those brilliant coral-red spots?
The reason Maine won't allow Ly to display his carp in his eatery is not his
situation, per se. It's because officials know some irresponsible, clueless, or
even arrogant people don't understand that a few carp can destroy a fishery --
and a way of life and inspiration for millions."

http://outdoors.mainetoday.com/news/070128fleming.html

Another Interesting Piece Out Today:

The state's chief fish biologist, John Boland -- who works for the Department of Inland Fisheries and Wildlife -- said earlier this year that invasive fish in Maine's waters are the single biggest challenge faced by fisheries biologists. After a long and sorry history in which the state itself stocked non-native fish in some of our pristine waters, wrecking many of our famed fisheries, biologists have come around to the understanding that managing for ecological integrity is the right path. That's what led Boland's colleagues to come down so hard on a Freeport Chinese restaurant owner who kept a tank of non-native koi fish: "Maine has stepped up to the plate in recent years," Boland told the Portland Press Herald. "Now it's a $10,000 fine to stock a pond without a permit or to transport live fish without a permit. ... We're taking a hard line on it, whether it's illegal introduction of bass, or non-native or exotic fish species."
http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.co...s/3663346.html

Protecting fisheries from invasives is crucial, but education about proper management of hobbyist pond systems is a far better approach in America than banning a hobby that itself is not destroying any fisheries.

[bekko]

The Maine law is justified in their minds. Carp did a lot of environmental damage in other parts of the US after being introduced by the old Bureau of Fisheries. Whether Mr. Ly agrees with the law or not, he broke the law. The authorities gave him the opportunity to get rid of the fish and only confiscated the fish and slapping him with a fine after he ignored their request. Is this who you want as Koi Person of the Year? Someone who put the hobby above his social conscience and the law?

There is some history which demonstrates that hobbyists cannot police themselves and cannot be relied upon to do the right thing in the absence of regulation.

s tev

[koicluboftheair]

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko The Maine law is justified in their minds. Carp did a lot of environmental damage in other parts of the US after being introduced by the old Bureau of Fisheries. Whether Mr. Ly agrees with the law or not, he broke the law. The authorities gave him the opportunity to get rid of the fish and only confiscated the fish and slapping him with a fine after he ignored their request. Is this who you want as Koi Person of the Year? Someone who put the hobby above his social conscience and the law? There is some history which demonstrates that hobbyists cannot police themselves and cannot be relied upon to do the right thing in the absence of regulation. s tev

Likewise, the Maine law could be justified in the minds of regulators in every state in the union. Non-native species are certainly a problem in our state of Florida. The actions of the Boston Tea Party were also against the law. Freeing slaves was against the law, etc. Some laws are not just and though we are a nation of laws we are also a nation, of, by, and for the people. Yes, the social conscience exhibited by Mr. Ly with regard to standing up against a ban on the ownership of koi contained in an aquarium warrants Koi Person of the Year.

Regarding your statement that there is ",...some history which demonstrates that hobbyists cannot police themselves and cannot be relied upon to do the right thing in the absence of regulation," even if true you are addressing a percieved circumstance in all the other states in the union where it is legal to actually own a koi fish. If banning the ownership of koi is an example of proper regulation of hobbyists then you further demonstrate why the example set by Mr. Ly should be honored by the rest of the hobbyists.

Thanks for the pointed position.
Regards,

[PapaBear]

Your proposal seems a weeeeee bit over the top, as do your suppositions about some looming nationwide plot to destroy the hobby .
Carp are already in the wild in most states, so banning Koi would be senseless. It would make just as much sense to shut down the Dept of Fisheries because they introduced carp in the first place so if we just get rid of the original culprit, the problem will go away... right
None of this is a reflection on Mr. Ly. He obviously cared for his Koi very much and their cultural significance to him is no doubt very important. When I first read about this I thought the state overreacted in every way and I still do. No doubt the only reason the AG finally compromised was due to the fact that they were looking like real asses.
At any rate, your "theme" seems to be less about the hobby and more about a hobbyhorse.

[koicluboftheair]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear Your proposal seems a weeeeee bit over the top, as do your suppositions about some looming nationwide plot to destroy the hobby . At any rate, your "theme" seems to be less about the hobby and more about a hobbyhorse.

I agree with you. Few in the existing koi hobby organizations are interested or concerned with threats perceived or otherwise to the hobby itself. Whether one is discussing bans on possession, importation bans or restrictions, or even release of viruses such as considered in Australia with KHV few show interest or concern, which indeed gives the appearance that it is my private hobbyhorse.

[KoiCop]

Since this is an 'imaginary' contest (with absolutely no established criteria for nomination or selection), I do hereby submit an entry for Chandler -- our Costa Mesa Koihound -- as Koi Person of the Year.



(HEY, if a dimwit like you can nominate a nimrod like Ly, then I should be able to nominate Chandler -- 'cause dogs is people, too!)

In the first place, he loves his koi and knows they're happy in a properly designed, stocked, filtered and maintained pond (unlike nimrod Ly).

Secondly, he protects his koi and hasn't lost care and custody of them for an extended period of time (unlike nimrod Ly).

And finally, he hasn't broken the law or squandered a small fortune recently (unlike nimrod Ly). Gosh, think how many Milkbones that would have bought!

So for all these reasons, please remember to:

VOTE FOR CHANDLER

Chandler thanks you (and The Hobby will, too).