will sunlight help koi keep their vivid colors? part 2

[schildkoi]

Since the first thread took a sharp tuen and crashed and burned, let me restate how I answered in that first thread here:


Bacteria is typically not sunlight specific. If it was, how would it grow in covered or pressurized filters? Algae on the other hand needs sunlight. Thus most biofilters should be covered to prevent growth on the media that would restrict the biofilm growth.

As to shading a pond? Yes, it is typically a good idea so as to help limit algae growth. As to the amount of shade? That would be dependent on the geographical area one is in. Intensity and duration plays a key role in this area. So, sunnier, more southern areas would need a higher percentage of shade.

Steve

[JasPR]

yea Steve, I'm with you and I don't disagree. There is also an argument to be made about UV effects on nitrification species bacteria. But all in, algae can just as easily be an 'indicator' species- like a canary in a coal mine. Algae is stimulated very much be phosphate and nitrate. Two things that become VERY common in high summer. Phophate from run off and koi food and nirate from a very active summer nitrification activity. This gets like a 'deep sea fishing reel and line' trying to untangle the layers of complication in a koi pond when sun, food and light are added to a closed living system. JR

[kingkong]

Complicated is right. Here at the skin cancer capital of the USA, I have to assume my koi are no exception. UV rays I believe, are doing a number on the skin of some of my koi. Damage and deformities by mutating cell's genetic codes, from a bombardment of energy from UV rays.

[Graham]

KK it's going to be a little hard to put an SPF30 on them........

It's the UV-B that's the problem but as you move away from the equator it becomes less of a problem. My location here in Halifax is nothing compared to next weekend in Orlando. As JR mentioned water clearity and then the amount of pollution in the air all effect how much of a problem sunlight will be.

If you read Norm Meck he figures that sunlight is only a small factor in algae production.....I know that in my pond which gets full sunlight all day I'm lucky to be able to grow the short fuzzy stuff to hide the liner

[koicluboftheair]

To address Moikoi’s question I'd say the effects of sunlight are varied depending on the location in the world and type of pond or containment system the koi are living in. The effects of sunlight on mud ponds versus a home rig are different along with the impacts of UVR exposure duration and intensity depending on the longitude and latitude of the system, shading, etc. While more regular sunlight is obviously beneficial for increasing the spawning cycle, in a clear, shallow hobbyist pond it is more likely to result in sunburn. Yet, can anyone directly address the relationship of sunlight to koi maintenance of vivid colors? I’ve seen no such studies written about in scientific journals.
The effects of sunlight in this regard appears to be indirect and relate mostly to UVR’s redox reactions that stress fish and in concert with pollutants that can further harm fish through photosensitisation. Interestingly, the latter effect would seem to be most prevalent in a mud pond versus a home rig, but the depth and suspended solids in the mud pond provide other protections (even with the presence of DOM) against other effects of sunlight that the more shallow and clear water condition of a home rig does not. JR mentioned “run off” as a factor, which I’d question. Likewise, I’d disagree that algae present in the pond in relation to the sunlight have no bearing on skin color. Scientific studies have demonstrated that Chlorella does in fact have a better coloring up effect than Spirulina in koi.

[JasPR]

Graham , I have a semi-reef tank going at the moment with MUCHO light! Actinic for spectrum ( two 125) and two 250 Halides- The new killer Geismanns. Anyway, suffice it to say, in 25 inches of water this is a VERY VERY bright tank!!! LOLs
Ironically when I had other lights on this tank it was plagued with red and hair algae. So it wasn't brightness/intensity or specturm ( well maybe 'some' specturm or lack of spectrum). But using RO water, a foam fractionator ( to remove organics and also to reduce the overall nitrification ) removing phosphate from food sources and lowing nitrification all togther, I have NO algae - it is 'missing' and now has lost a position within the nutrient competition among life forms. In effect, the water column is now like a 'desert' in terms of nourishment. Although the glass will become diatom, algae coated if left uncleared for a week. Its a dramatic illustration of 'what and who' drives the bus in a marine setting with very bright light.
Admittedly, a eutrophic setting like a koi pond is NOT the same- exactly? But the general lesson can be taken over to our ponds. JR

[keokoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Graham , I have a semi-reef tank going at the moment with MUCHO light! Actinic for spectrum ( two 125) and two 250 Halides- The new killer Geismanns. Anyway, suffice it to say, in 25 inches of water this is a VERY VERY bright tank!!! LOLs Ironically when I had other lights on this tank it was plagued with red and hair algae. JR

Oooo sounds like Cyano Bacteria.


A few years back I had my pond in full sun... Then those shade sail thingys came out. My wife being very light skinned she always was finding shelter under our Japanese Maple tree to read a book or just hang out near the pond. I installed a few triangular shade sails which gave shade over the pond and decks.

I made 2 things very happy. My wife gets to keep her youthful appearance and the skin on my koi look better then ever. I noticed they were a bit rough before and now they look much softer....


PS the pond does get filtered light and some direct sunlight for about 2-3 hours a day..

Joe

[koicluboftheair]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Graham , I have a semi-reef tank going at the moment with MUCHO light! Actinic for spectrum ( two 125) and two 250 Halides- The new killer Geismanns. Anyway, suffice it to say, in 25 inches of water this is a VERY VERY bright tank!!! LOLs Ironically when I had other lights on this tank it was plagued with red and hair algae. So it wasn't brightness/intensity or specturm ( well maybe 'some' specturm or lack of spectrum). But using RO water, a foam fractionator ( to remove organics and also to reduce the overall nitrification ) removing phosphate from food sources and lowing nitrification all togther, I have NO algae - it is 'missing' and now has lost a position within the nutrient competition among life forms. In effect, the water column is now like a 'desert' in terms of nourishment. Although the glass will become diatom, algae coated if left uncleared for a week. Its a dramatic illustration of 'what and who' drives the bus in a marine setting with very bright light. Admittedly, a eutrophic setting like a koi pond is NOT the same- exactly? But the general lesson can be taken over to our ponds. JR

The closest principle I've heard to this eliminating algae in the pond was from Kevin Novak's theory behind his Anoxic filtration system. Aside from the anaerobic heterotrophic bacteria in the pond he uses plants in his filter system that he claims contribute to the nitrification of ammonia via direct utilization. I'm fascinated by your observation of the light effect on algae in your saltwater aquarium as related possibly to the chemolithoautotrophic nitrite-oxidizing bacteria and autotrophic ammonia-oxidizing bacteria. Nitrobacter species have long been credited for oxidation of nitrite to nitrate in saltwater systems, but according to studies does not propagate well in freshwater aquariums. Thus, I'm uncertain of the translation of particular light sources in marine aquaria to freshwater systems and the light effect on the nitrogen cycle.

[JasPR]

Hot air, please stop talking to me, OK? I'm not interested. Thanks, JR

[koicluboftheair]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Hot air, please stop talking to me, OK? I'm not interested. Thanks, JR

Oh James, I thought you might expound on your rationale for mentioning impacts of run off on koi and comparing light conditions in your salt water aquarium to conditions in an aquatic koi pond. With all due respect your statements in this regard were not made in a pm. In fact, I'm very interested and ready to learn.