Opinions please on this domestic Sanke

[Richard Rombold]

I'm interested in your honest opinions concerning this female nisai sanke. She is not for sale, but was bred by me at my farm. She has grown on me. The female I bred her from has marvelously deep fukurin, but the beni does not develop much beyond this shade of orange. I like the fish, but not the spawn she came from. She really was the exception.

[Brutuscz]

You GOTTA be proud A beautiful sanke. The shiro is insane...a dream come true. Nice pattern and good conformation...A future American bred Grand Champion?!?!

[dick benbow]

I have bred sanke in the past and can tell you of all the color varieties i am familar with this is the most difficult one to have sucess with.

Let me say that i like this koi very much for it's general appeal but what i can't explain is why the beni shashi on the left side of the fish is uneven?
It's not a finishing I'm familar with?

Usually the beni on a sanke is a deeper reddish orange, different than kohaku.
I know Momotaro bred sanke beni into his kohaku to get the color he is famous for....but this is not the beni I am used to seeing on a sanke? You indicated that this was just one from that spawning that made it. Was it the first time with that particular male. generally my instincts tell me that when i get a unique individual from any spawn, it's worth hanging on to and incorporating into a new parent attempt. If she were mind i'd be real tempted
to breed her back to a kohaku that particularly had a strong red beni...

So Sorry Richard I have more questions than answers. I am impressed with your work and hope you continue with your efforts. Thank-you for sharing this koi with us to enjoy.

[Richard Rombold]

Well the worth behind this sanke is in the male I used to breed it with. He, as you described dick, was that unusual fish worth hanging on to. Beautiful, deep, vibrant fish. I am searching for the right female to match him with. I crossed him back to a female kohaku last year with decent results, but still searching for the right pairing.

I agree that this girl is a long shot, but she is so tempting that I need to see it through. I was looking at the beni on the kindai showa thread and it has almost a life of its own while mine appears a little two dimensional. There are trade offs though and I'm not sure that I'm ready to embrace entirely what the Japanese have been doing the last 10 years. That is why I post. I'm looking for an honest review so I can adjust and evolve.

[cocoyboy]

Very good job, this Sanke flows very well in everything!

[koiczar]

Hi Richard

You're gaining on it! Well, here goes nothing - there's somethin about this fish that catches my eye and then makes me come back and take another look. At first glance, it's a very striking fish. Once my eyes became fixated, I found a disturbance in the force - the beni. Even in the picture, it appears, as you said, two dimensional - kinda flat. Also the sashikome is a little more than the normally accepted single scale in depth. Although it looks as though as she matures and the shiroji thickens, the sashi may become a non-issue, I'm still concerned about the depth of the beni itself. Did both parents have a deep, thick beni? Or was it the male that carried that gene.

Obviously, you're planning on growing her out for another year or two before you spawn her. Maybe you can see, say, in two years what males come from this year's spawn that could be used with her. As Dick mentioned, you're taking on a monumental task by breeding sanke and I commend you for your efforts so far. You're on the right track, just keep plodding along.

Toshio Sakai was taking about the time it took him to develop his new sumi and hi (20+years) and what he went through to get to this point. The new line has been, in his opinion, stable for the past 4 years, and his efforts have not gone unrewarded. So, as he went, so, you will too, if you continue to keep with a plan no matter what anyone else tells you. Only you see your fish every day and only you can tell the subtleties within each breeding that will help you make the necessary decisions to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

BTW, enjoy your new oyagoi. I hope she can contribute to future success.

Regards

Mike

[PapaBear]

Trying hard to ignore the pattern and see the fish instead. (I like the unique pattern, and it keeps distracting me )
Her body, Shiroji, and Sumi are everything I would look for in a Sanke. The Beni really is the wildcard. It isn't what most of your Koi look like in terms of luster, color, etc... , but I can't really put my finger on it. The Sashi is different from left to right, but I don't see the 2 scale depth as much of an issue. Time should solidify it into the hi plates as the skin looks very good.
Is it just me, or does the beni seem similar to some of the Rose line sisters from different pairings? Some were produced from Persimmon Beni sires and others from Pink/Red Beni sires. This one seems to have characteristics of both.

[Russell Peters]

Hi Richard,

I think the Sanke has a lot of very good qualities. The body line is very straight and gives it a wonderful conformation. The pattern is outstanding, with beni and sumi set in a very pleasing way.The shiroji is also stunning, which is something I see a lot in your Koi. The problem I have is in the depth and luster of the beni. The beni is thin and not very even and it does not stand out. I think that when you get a higher quality in your beni, you will stand out above and beyond.

Russ

[jbolding]

Thank you Richard for posting this fish.

I am intrigued by this fish. It is a very good sanke from the pictures. The shiro looks clean, body looks good, sumi looks good (although a little finished for such a young fish), but then there is the beni. It's not quite red enough to be persimony, and it does look a little flat. Could you give us a close up of a few of the beni scales from just behind the shoulder? It looks as if some of them may have a darker center (meaning thier be more layers of red/orange forming), but I see no sign of that on the scales just behind the head. In some ways I think the shiro is compensating for the beni.

[Richard Rombold]

I'll try to get some close up shots of the beni today or tomorrow so we can all have a better look at what is bothering us.