Ammonia question

[Erns]

I'm really confused about the ammonia issue. I've used the NT Labs test kit for over a year and I've been getting 'zero' readings for as long as I've had this pond. I have a big pond(8000 gal), low stocking(24 medium to large koi) and very effective filtration.
I recently bought a Multiparameter Bench Photometer by Hanna instruments. I've tested my ammonia over the last 6 months and the lowest I can get it is 0.22ppm. THis is a pretty high reading according to all the info I could find on the topic. Dangerously high. My nitrite readings with the same meter however is 0.00 up to 0.03ppm at most. I went on to a friend who has a 8000gal pond, with 14 jumbo koi. He has two Nexus 300 systems as well as a bakki shower. Pond is turned over(like mine) at least once an hour. His ammonia with the test kit was also 'zero' but on the Hanna photometer it was 0.32ppm. I went on to test 3 other ponds which had been running for years with very effective filtration systems and low feeding with low stocking with the same results. I understand that commercial kits tests for TAN and that only a very small percentage is the dangerous NH3. But the photometer tests for NH3-N which is then converted to NH3 by multiplying by 1.21. So I'm a bit confused. I've got no health problems (so far) and i've had excellent growth this season but according to the commercial test there is no ammonia and according to a digital test, there is plenty? How do I make sense out of this?

[KoiCop]

while I'm not familiar with that instrument, my intial response deals with calibration.

Have you investigated that aspect? If not, I'd check it by testing calibration fluids of known ph to see whether it's accurate or not. Good luck,

[Erns]

The instrument is used in large scale aquaculture. It calibrates by itself. The protocol is to put a sample with water in the unit. It then zero's(calibrates) the sample. you then add the agent and a timer counts down 3 minutes before it gives you a digital reading. My ph is pretty stable at 7.6 and the temp is 26 degrees celsius.

You can view it at: http://hannainst.com/usa/prods2.cfm?ProdCode=HI%2083203

[Erns]

Try this link for the meter. The last one does not seem to work very well:
http://www.hannainst.com/products/io...ode=HI%2083203

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by Erns The instrument is used in large scale aquaculture. It calibrates by itself.

Thanks for the link. The website says "No need to calibrate probes," which does not address the issue of calibrating the machine, itself.

Me, I'd grab that Instruction Manual (which I couldn't access on line) and double-check to see whether there is a calibration section?

Best,

[mynamy1]

Erns, a few questions first.

1. Is your original NT test kit Nessler-type or Polycyclate-type (sp. ?) as in Tetra test kit.

2. What is the minimum reading of each test kit? In many non-professional test kit the minimum reading is 0.25 ppm. That mean any actual reading south of 0.25 ppm is a safe zone or zero.

3. Did you use Amquel/Cloramax (i.e. doing water change) product within 72 hrs of ammonia testing with either type of tester?

I am curious like hell. MA. Le

[Erns]

Quote: Originally Posted by mynamy1 Erns, a few questions first. 1. Is your original NT test kit Nessler-type or Polycyclate-type (sp. ?) as in Tetra test kit. 2. What is the minimum reading of each test kit? In many non-professional test kit the minimum reading is 0.25 ppm. That mean any actual reading south of 0.25 ppm is a safe zone or zero. 3. Did you use Amquel/Cloramax (i.e. doing water change) product within 72 hrs of ammonia testing with either type of tester? I am curious like hell. MA. Le

Hey
Sorry, forgot to mention that I changed to the Interpet kit which measures down to 0.1ppm. It's a test that works with two tablets, no idea what type.

Our water down here in South Africa is still pretty good, so we don't need to treat. I've done the test with the bench meter in the morning before dawn, during the day and in the evening and I always get a 0.2something reading.

The meter does not need to be calibrated as it calibrates itself before each test on a sample of water without reagent. The meter reads the change in color(photometer) and therefore does not need to be chemically calibrated.

Too much emphasis on the discussion is going to the instument. My buddy has one too and we get the same readings.

My initial question relates to the whole issue of what is TAN exactly and what persentage of TAN is the dangerous one. What is NH3-N, what is NH3 then and what is Free ammonia and what is ionized ammonia. I'm not a chemistry buff but it seems you need to be to understand.

THere was a good article in koi USA a couple of months ago on maximum flowrates through your boi filters. I've doulbled mine and halved them again and the reading on the digital meter stayed the same. The article advised that if we feed one pound a day and have a flow rate of 60gal per min through an effective bio filter we should have a reading of less than 0.0025ppm. (on a 10 000gal pond). My frustration is I can't get anywhere close to this target and besides not feeding my fish I can't get that reading of 0.0025ppm. and it seems none of my koi keeping buddies with all the right filtration, low feeding, low stocking etc. can achieve it either.

So if anybody out there knows who SPIKE COVER is perhaps you can get him to read this and help me out here??? The article ran in Sept/Oct 2006 of KOI USA

[Russell Peters]

I agree with Erns, I have been using the same meter for years and there is no need to calibrate it and it is extremely accurate. I get almost the same results with the LaMotte kit.

I don't really know the answer to your problem though, but I would say that if the meter is telling you that you have ammonia, then you do.

Maybe the filter system is not running as efficiently as it should, or it might need some help. How much oxygen does your pond get? Is your filter system really big enough?

[Erns]

Russel
THanks for the reply. I also thought I must have a slight ammonia problem then. But when I could not get it down I started testing friends ponds as well. Some very high tech with very low stocking. I mean a pond that has been running for 4 years, with two nexus 300 filters, and a massive bakki shower and only 14 koi in 8000 gal should be good right? But he had the same base readings as me. Then there is the Nitrite issue. My reading is 0.00ppm??
My current parameters:
NH3: 0.22ppm
NO2: 0.00ppm
NO3: 30ppm
DO: 7.8ppm
Ph: 7.6
Temp: 25 degrees ceslsius.

So all seems fine besides ammonia. And had I not the high tech testing meter but the commercial ones everbody has I would have thought I have no ammonia as well. How many people out there believe they have 'zero' ammonia who actually don't. I've not found a pond with zero ammonia yet?

What do you get with your meter on your pond and what procedure do you follow?

[bekko]

Test a tap water sample and a sample from bottled spring water or something similar to see if you can get a zero reading. Do not let the water sample sit around exposed to the air before you test it.

Depending on where you live and what sort of activity is going on around you, there can be significant amounts of ammonia in the air. It readily diffuses into water and is literally washed out of the air during a rain storm.

Every pond will have a background ammonia level. There must be ammonia present at some level as it is constantly being produced. If ammonia were absolute zero, the biofilter would starve to death. But, with that said, 0.2 ppm sounds a bit high.

-s t eve