Dainichi Showa for comments

[Erns]

Hey pbng
I must point to you that you are very fortunate to have access to high grade koi from Sakai and Dainichi. One of my dealers was just with Sakai and the tosai was going for 1.8mil yen...way above my budjet. I'm a big fan of kindai showa and they are my absolute favorite. I'm yet to own a tategoi but I'll not give up. I'll be in japan in Oct 2007 to hunt for one. My dealers can't build a good relationship with Dianichi. They find him rude and there is not a lot of access to high quality koi. I guess it's all about the relationship build over years. Kinda hard for us newbies to get into it then. When I'm in Japan I hope to get to Koi No Yohei to search for a kindai showa, I've seen and heard great things about his koi.

On your showas, again you are really forunate to have a collection like this to keep an eye on! My favorite is S4, and as she grows the white ground will contrast sharply with the hi and sumi greating a spectacular sight. She also has great motoguro which is a sign of great things to come. The body also seems very strong and the frame has the potencial to develop into something special.

S2 is a very nice kindai showa. The tail tube is a bit thin but lets see how they develop over the next year. This one is my favorite on pattern. Pls keep us updated on how they develop. I'll learna lot from rhis one!

[PapaBear]

As mentioned before, I already posted this on he Malaysian forum, so here's what I said there.

You did well, as there ar no bad Koi in the group.
I would guess that #5 is quite likely male which will keep it a bit smaller, thinner in the future compared to the S3/S4. It will also finish sooner, which is probably part of the difference you are seeing in beni color as well as different bloodline.
My top 2 out of your original set are S4 and S3. I prefer S4 because of the body and pattern. S3 is very bulky now as a relatively young Koi, but the overly thick tailtube may indicate a problem in the future. Sometimes Showa develop a Kink in the tailtube as they grow old, and this one holds that possibility. S4 is not as thick today, but the body is very nicely conformed from nose to tail and as it matures it has much potential to grow large without deformity and become very thick as it goes above 65-70 cm.
Another thing to consider is pattern size and placement. As they grow the pattern will spread out and the color plates will move away from each other. S4 has a large enough pattern to mature into a nicely balanced adult. The others are all interesting in their own way, but above 70 cm I don't think the patterns will look well placed by comparison.
There's my 2 cents.

[pbng]

In my buying selection, I always set the following criterias:

1. Female potential;
2. Body conformation
3. pattern

however, very often, the pattern became my final decision to buy or not to buy.....(typical newbie buying behaviour! )

With all the comments received, I'm nt worry on how to maintain the quality of the fish.

My pond is rectangular pond, 2m x 4m x 0.9m (depth). The depth is insufficient for good growth. I'm just thinking whether stronger current will help to compensate the lack of depth.

If I install water jet along the width of the pond, and create a 1-way direction water flow from one end of the pond to the other, will give help to build the fish body? or 'damage' the fish body?

[MikeM]

??I do not understand how you would get one-way water flow.

With a depth of just 3 feet, you may not develop as nice a body as in a deeper pond, but the extra current should be helpful. However, I think you should consider emphasizing male koi. The dimensions of your pond would work better for males. Not every male koi is a skinny fish. Some can get quite a pleasant shape.

[Eugeneg]

With a depth of just 3 feet, you may not develop as nice a body as in a deeper pond, but the extra current should be helpful. However, I think you should consider emphasizing male koi. The dimensions of your pond would work better for males. Not every male koi is a skinny fish. Some can get quite a pleasant shape.[/quote]

One of the reasons why mud ponds are so beneficial to female koi is that most are at least 12ft deep . At 3 years the female starts to produce eggs and all the growth goes to that purpose so it only leaves 4months for all the growth to take place even if they are in a regular koi pond they seem to loose their shape . Mike has a very good point for your stiuation males have got the advantage that they are a lot hardier and you can feed them nearly all the year without affecting their body shape as much . Another advantage is in cold climates and long winters as I have never lost a male yet .
The biggest problem with a shallow pond is temperature stebility as unless you have no winters or summers it is not really suitable for koi in the long run
Regards
Eugene

[pbng]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeM ??I do not understand how you would get one-way water flow. With a depth of just 3 feet, you may not develop as nice a body as in a deeper pond, but the extra current should be helpful. However, I think you should consider emphasizing male koi. The dimensions of your pond would work better for males. Not every male koi is a skinny fish. Some can get quite a pleasant shape.

Since my pond is a rectangular, I was thinking of installing a pump with spray bar to create the current, as per the pic. The square box is my bottom drain connecting to the filter.

[pbng]

Quote: Originally Posted by Eugeneg With a depth of just 3 feet, you may not develop as nice a body as in a deeper pond, but the extra current should be helpful. However, I think you should consider emphasizing male koi. The dimensions of your pond would work better for males. Not every male koi is a skinny fish. Some can get quite a pleasant shape.

One of the reasons why mud ponds are so beneficial to female koi is that most are at least 12ft deep . At 3 years the female starts to produce eggs and all the growth goes to that purpose so it only leaves 4months for all the growth to take place even if they are in a regular koi pond they seem to loose their shape . Mike has a very good point for your stiuation males have got the advantage that they are a lot hardier and you can feed them nearly all the year without affecting their body shape as much . Another advantage is in cold climates and long winters as I have never lost a male yet .
The biggest problem with a shallow pond is temperature stebility as unless you have no winters or summers it is not really suitable for koi in the long run
Regards
Eugene[/quote]

The weather here in Singapore has no 4 season, temparature will be ranging 27-31 degree. I'm thinking of keeping the koi till about 60+cm....if they have good potential, I'll be keeping them with the local farm, so-call "koi-hotel" in a bigger size pond, like 200-250tons.

[MikeM]

PBNG: I do not believe you are going to accomplish your goal with this design. However, I'll leave it to some of our engineers to advise on water flow dynamics and how best to accomplish your goal given the confines of your pond.

[Eugeneg]

The weather here in Singapore has no 4 season, temparature will be ranging 27-31 degree. I'm thinking of keeping the koi till about 60+cm....if they have good potential, I'll be keeping them with the local farm, so-call "koi-hotel" in a bigger size pond, like 200-250tons.[/quote]

That is a great temperature and if you only keep the fish to 60cm and then move into a deep pond if high quality should do well . What about dormancy and mud ponds as I thought that is how the best is brought out . It would be nice to be able to take some of these fish back to Japan and see how they would do against the Japanese in a show . Here in Canada the first 2 winters fish are indoors and heated so it costs a lot of money then when they are 3 year old I start to give a dormancy but it is going to be 4 months this year because of heating costs . There are certain advantages to cold as we have warm summers and at my cottage we can drink the water right out of the lake .
Regards
Eugene

[dcny]

pbng,

In your application a normal water pump probably would not work. The effective velocity of anything coming out of the spray bar from a normal pump would be siginificantly diminished and would probably not create the current you're looking for.

However, this may be a place where a prop pump would work if this was a zero head application. Do a seach here for prop pump and you should come up with a couple of links and references. Prop pump can move alot of water and that may be your only chance to overcome the friction losses caused by a spay bar type device.

-Dan