Showa or Sanke?

[jhamil4ton]

I bought this koi as a fingerling last year. I know it's pond quality, but I'm having a hard time determining which variety? I'm sure it will be easy for most on this board to tell. Also, is this a case where the beni will fade away?

(By the way, I've been leaning Sanke)

[Russell Peters]

Doitsu Sanke.

[mstrseed]

Look for black in its mouth, if so showa.

[dick benbow]

Taisho Sanshoku, german scale.....

[cppond]

IMHO, this fish would be benched sanke. The pattern of sumi in the pecs indicates sanke. Note how the sumi on the pecs is in the form of lines that reach the end of the pecs, yet there is none where the pecs meet the body (on one side). The type and pattern of the sumi on the body indicates bekko, therefore sanke. The sumi is in the form of spots, and though there is some sumi under the lateral line, it does not appear to emerge from below the lateral line in the form of bands. If you removed the beni on the head, you would have a bekko, not an utsuri.

The sumi on the head is incidental, (and barely on the head) and not significant enough to overcome the other indicators. Moreover, it is bekko style sumi, not utsuri style sumi. As to sumi in the mouth, my understanding is that with the emergence of kindai showa, who have more shiro, it is not reliable as an indicator.

[chinadna]

Sanke

[jhamil4ton]

Thanks to everyone for all the info. I forgot to mention that one reason I was asking was because a black dot (about the size of a Marilyn Monroe mole has come through under the right eye. You can slightly see it in one of the pics that I posted, but it was just starting to come through when the picture was taken. I didn't know if this had an impact or not. Thanks again for the tips.

Any opinions on the beni?

[cppond]

Quote: Originally Posted by jhamil4ton Thanks to everyone for all the info. I forgot to mention that one reason I was asking was because a black dot (about the size of a Marilyn Monroe mole has come through under the right eye. You can slightly see it in one of the pics that I posted, but it was just starting to come through when the picture was taken. I didn't know if this had an impact or not. Thanks again for the tips. Any opinions on the beni?

Was there more beni to begin with? It looks like it has beni that has faded over various parts of the body. I think there is a good chance that the beni on the head will fade

As to whether this is sanke or showa, remember that when hobbyists are considering that question, they are considering what it looks like at the moment, not it's genotype or what it might become. Koi have been known to mature from one type into another. At this time, a small black mark under the eye would not change the classification. However, further changes might, such as extensive sumi through the face, more sumi under the lateral, and a retraction of the sumi in the pecs.

Hopefully, those with more experience than I will comment.

[jhamil4ton]

Thanks Carl. It never had any beni on the body.....always just the same strange shaped spot on the head and a bit on one pectoral fin.