Buying for now or buying for later

[RayJordan]

I enjoy helping people buy baby koi. Our our club's annual spring event I was one of the seminar speakers and talked about buying baby koi. Showed lots of photos of examples of what not to buy and also what to look for depending on if you wanted them to look best at a small size or later at a larger size.

Afterwards I had quite a few of the attendees ask me to help them pick out a koi. I would find out what their budget was and then take them to tanks that fit their budget and ask them what kind of koi they liked. It is always interesting to see the different types of koi that attract new buyers. People of eastern cultures usually like mostly Gosanke with simple patterns. Western cultures often like the metallics and Gin Rin types with more complicated patterns.

Once they decide what type they want to buy I get them to point out 4-5 koi that appeal to them in the tank. I net and put these in a tub then I ask them to decide if they want their koi to look best at a small or large size. I point out which koi appear to be better now and which will likely be better later and explain why. Then I remove the ones that do not fit their goal. I might get them to pick out a few more in the tank to add to the tub that fit their goal of now or later to insure they have several koi to choose from. Then I ask them to pick two koi with the best body shape. Then pick the two with the best red. Then pick the best combintion of body and red. They end up with a mini koi appreciation lession and hopefully a pretty nice koi of their choice.

Sometimes the new buyers that have read a few books or spent a little time on the internet are driven by pattern and pick koi with poor body shape or weak red or both. I try to gently refocus them on buying better quality koi but sometimes they are adamant on buying pattern. Either way they with get the most important lesson from watching their koi they selected develop.

Occasionally I have someone that just wants me to pick out their koi for them. One guy this weekend wanted six $100 koi "all different types and the best in the tank he said." Best what I asked. You decide he said so I picked 3 for now and 3 for later. Makes you really appreciate the new hobbyists that want to learn to appreciate koi. and are interested in learning how koi develop.

[chinadna]

As a new fan,I believe it is very difficult to pick young koi. The younger will change more .especally the baby Showa. a lot of them will be eliminated.After one year,they were no a good fish,how you would done with them? And the baby fish is very weakness.So I believe buying latter. It`s good at baby fish ,also be good at my confidence .

[dick benbow]

I too enjoy the process of educating those trying to learn the art of selecting tosai. I'm waiting to hear back from 2 oregon clubs to put on a program this summer for them. I'm also looking forward to seminars schedule in oregon and washington state in conjunction with shows ( while you judges are doing your thing! ) But I agree that there's nothing like hanging out at the local dealer and watching everyone from the beginner to the intermediate trying to find that perfect koi! I think it's great that we have a few willing to share their knowledge....wish they'd have been there when I first started......LOL

[koiczar]

Originally Posted by dick benbow

I too enjoy the process of educating those trying to learn the art of selecting tosai. I'm waiting to hear back from 2 oregon clubs to put on a program this summer for them. I'm also looking forward to seminars schedule in oregon and washington state in conjunction with shows ( while you judges are doing your thing! ) But I agree that there's nothing like hanging out at the local dealer and watching everyone from the beginner to the intermediate trying to find that perfect koi! I think it's great that we have a few willing to share their knowledge....wish they'd have been there when I first started......LOL

Dick and Ray

I agree, it's a lot of fun watching newbies at a dealers, standing over a tosai tank (usually 6/100 or 25 each trying to decide if they can find the "diamond in the rough". Dick, I was fortunate enough to have a Japanese breeder in my area that took me under his wing 30 years ago and taught me how to look at his tosai. He retired around 2000 and I sorely miss his friendship and knowledge. He reminds me a little of Toshio Sakai in that he loved to teach, if you were a willing student and didn't fail his future testing of your knowledge retention. He was a little more forgiving than Toshio is though - LOL

Anyway, I feel I have since graduated from tosai. I don't spend time looking at them unless their from a breeder's top stock like Sakai or Maruyama or the like. It's just near impossible to find something worth growing out for the long run, unless you're not as discriminating a buyer!

Mike

[sharon olson]

Last spring Toshio Sakai sent six young tosai to study 3-grades of Showa
and Sanke. We have kept a photo and size record of thease fish. Dick Bembow comes over to our club meetings when we study them. So far everyone in the club has enjoyed this. In a few weeks we will be doing the
spring lesson on them. Three of them were inside all winter the other ones
outside. It is very hard to learn from pictures, so this has helped everyone.
It also makes for a fun hands on meeting. Will post some pictures of them
after the spring session.

[dick benbow]

Mike your right Toshio is a demanding teacher but to his top students he is very gracious to share. You were lucky to have the teacher you did......

Many things in life are like a rwo edged sword, cuts going in and out.....

As an avid fisherman I loved it when the cost and mobility of fish finders
became more available. That way you knew you were fishing over fish.....but when they weren't biting it could be very frustrating....I use this example because those who are excellerating their knowledge, don't fish over tosai
cause the chances of finding something is extremely reduced....better to fish over 2 and 3 year old (depending on your $$$$) however by the time fish got much older it was out of my $ control to do any selecting there.

There was a time in my koi life when I was satisfied to enjoy my charges as they grew up and quit purchasing new one and 2 yr olds. After about 5 years of that I realized the joy that a tosai brings as the first 2 years of it's development can be pretty exciting to watch. So now as a compromise i will buy a little higher end tosai (taragoi...or "If" koi ) and enjoy watching the changes.....

this hobby is truely as much fun as you put into it or want to get out of it.

[mojo]

i truly learn a lesson from mr Dick last sentence. it depends on you want to get fun out of it right now or get fun when you put in it. last year Brett sell me 1 showa that we both agree will be very good. couple week later all black fade. i call Brett he said, Oh Showa !! black dissapears then it emerges even stronger. I trust him completely. and ask him how long. He said couple years. I again trust him completely. Later , when i watch him swim in my pond, i start asking myself: do you really want to watch this uggly fish in couple more years? with money, you can buy lot of thing, but not with time. and i do not have alot of it. that fish now gone, and i learn a lesson. i buy as much as NOW than LATER. I raher buy a beautiful finished fish than buy a will be beautiful in a couple more year. But that does'nt mean the other way is wrong, hell no. As Mr Dick said, depend what you want fun out of it or fun put in it.

[RayJordan]

I agree with you Mojo. I still buy both kinds some to enjoy now and some to hopefully enjoy later.

[teddy]

Hallo Ray,
What a kind man you are helping people choosing koi.
I wish I was one of them.
Since I'm far away from yours and maybe others too, what if you encourage us the newbies (like me & others) wtih your knowledge about picking up good koi?
looking forward your guidances

rgds,
teddy

Originally Posted by RayJordan

I enjoy helping people buy baby koi. Our our club's annual spring event I was one of the seminar speakers and talked about buying baby koi. Showed lots of photos of examples of what not to buy and also what to look for depending on if you wanted them to look best at a small size or later at a larger size.

Afterwards I had quite a few of the attendees ask me to help them pick out a koi. I would find out what their budget was and then take them to tanks that fit their budget and ask them what kind of koi they liked. It is always interesting to see the different types of koi that attract new buyers. People of eastern cultures usually like mostly Gosanke with simple patterns. Western cultures often like the metallics and Gin Rin types with more complicated patterns.

Once they decide what type they want to buy I get them to point out 4-5 koi that appeal to them in the tank. I net and put these in a tub then I ask them to decide if they want their koi to look best at a small or large size. I point out which koi appear to be better now and which will likely be better later and explain why. Then I remove the ones that do not fit their goal. I might get them to pick out a few more in the tank to add to the tub that fit their goal of now or later to insure they have several koi to choose from. Then I ask them to pick two koi with the best body shape. Then pick the two with the best red. Then pick the best combintion of body and red. They end up with a mini koi appreciation lession and hopefully a pretty nice koi of their choice.

Sometimes the new buyers that have read a few books or spent a little time on the internet are driven by pattern and pick koi with poor body shape or weak red or both. I try to gently refocus them on buying better quality koi but sometimes they are adamant on buying pattern. Either way they with get the most important lesson from watching their koi they selected develop.

Occasionally I have someone that just wants me to pick out their koi for them. One guy this weekend wanted six $100 koi "all different types and the best in the tank he said." Best what I asked. You decide he said so I picked 3 for now and 3 for later. Makes you really appreciate the new hobbyists that want to learn to appreciate koi. and are interested in learning how koi develop.

[teddy]

Hallo Ray,
What a kind man you are helping people choosing koi.
I wish I was one of them.
Since I'm far away from yours and maybe others too, what if you encourage us the newbies (like me & others) wtih your knowledge about picking up good koi?
looking forward your guidances

rgds,
teddy

Originally Posted by RayJordan

I enjoy helping people buy baby koi. Our our club's annual spring event I was one of the seminar speakers and talked about buying baby koi. Showed lots of photos of examples of what not to buy and also what to look for depending on if you wanted them to look best at a small size or later at a larger size.

Afterwards I had quite a few of the attendees ask me to help them pick out a koi. I would find out what their budget was and then take them to tanks that fit their budget and ask them what kind of koi they liked. It is always interesting to see the different types of koi that attract new buyers. People of eastern cultures usually like mostly Gosanke with simple patterns. Western cultures often like the metallics and Gin Rin types with more complicated patterns.

Once they decide what type they want to buy I get them to point out 4-5 koi that appeal to them in the tank. I net and put these in a tub then I ask them to decide if they want their koi to look best at a small or large size. I point out which koi appear to be better now and which will likely be better later and explain why. Then I remove the ones that do not fit their goal. I might get them to pick out a few more in the tank to add to the tub that fit their goal of now or later to insure they have several koi to choose from. Then I ask them to pick two koi with the best body shape. Then pick the two with the best red. Then pick the best combintion of body and red. They end up with a mini koi appreciation lession and hopefully a pretty nice koi of their choice.

Sometimes the new buyers that have read a few books or spent a little time on the internet are driven by pattern and pick koi with poor body shape or weak red or both. I try to gently refocus them on buying better quality koi but sometimes they are adamant on buying pattern. Either way they with get the most important lesson from watching their koi they selected develop.

Occasionally I have someone that just wants me to pick out their koi for them. One guy this weekend wanted six $100 koi "all different types and the best in the tank he said." Best what I asked. You decide he said so I picked 3 for now and 3 for later. Makes you really appreciate the new hobbyists that want to learn to appreciate koi. and are interested in learning how koi develop.