Would you buy this showa as tosai for $2,000?

[RayJordan]

2nd showa 2005 All Japan Show GC. One of the reasons I love showas.

[HEADACHE6]

Ray , Thank You ! These before & after threads can "teach" a rookie alot ! Did I say "teach" , I ment "crazy" !

[MikeM]

Good ones, Ray!

... the dream of tosai can come true. Oh, but what an entry fee.

[RayJordan]

Here is another one. Sorry do not have before photo. But she was purchased for 100 yen (80 cents) at one month of age. Grown in a 125 gallon tank for 1st two years, then in concrete pond for next year and in a mud pond for two more years. ALl Japan SHow Mature Champion. Barely missed being named Young All Japan Show Grand Champion last April by only 3 votes. 30 to 27. A cinderella story to be sure. Since Showas change so much there is a somewhat greater chance a breeder will sell a young showa and make a mistake to the hobbyist advantage.

[dick benbow]

The reason I was down on the first one was to me at that age the beni was suspect. Especially the tail stop. But the one thing about photos you could not see the true skin ( with dainichi it would have been soft ) and the beni
which many times has unclear kiwa and actually strengthens with age ( again daiinichi) Could i have detected that or even known it was daiinichi it may have given me a different insight.

I don't say this as any defense of my position ( i'd state it again the same if everything else was similar ) but I do want to point out that by studying certain bloodlines and seeing koi in person you can make better decisions. Skin will often tell you what to expect with the beni and sumi development....

[RayJordan]

The proof that showa are hard to predict is the fact that these koi were sold as tosai because the breeders felt it unlikely they would be better than the koi they selected to grow on. No doubt they turned out far better than most of the tosai they kept to grow another year or two. The difficulty in predicting how showas will develop is both a boon and a bane to both the hobbyist and the breeder. On my first trip to Japan I spotted a fantastic showa in iggy's sansai pond. I asked about it and was told it was a customers koi. It had been sold as tosai for about $800 and had developed far better than iggy had predicted. and was worth many times what the owner had paid. I still remember him shaking his head and saying S-H-O-W-A make you crazy!!

Of the gosanke kohaku and even sanke are reatively more predictable. Very few mistakes are culled. Showa is a different animal and while still pretty rare to find a needle in a haystack they can and do exist. Remember that the amount of space for a showa breeder to grow on larger koi is limited. Let's say he can keep 100. There are likely 10-20 more that almost make the cut but just missed somehow. It is from those near misses that a emerging jewel might be found.

Keeps me buying baby showa and dreaming.

[mojo]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeM Good ones, Ray! ... the dream of tosai can come true. Oh, but what an entry fee.

yahh right !!!, last year total 9 danichi and suda, now 3 left. but getting smarter those.

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by RayJordan Keeps me buying baby showa and dreaming.

You and couple of thousand more of us.

Great learning thread, Ray. Thanks.

[Ronin-Koi]

I am not sure if I am misunderstanding the original post. But clearly, the first image that was posted was a digitally manipulated file. In fact, that is NOT a photo of the 2007 All Japan GC as a tosai. No way. It is the SAME photo as the un-doctored photo, except someone with poor photoshop skils tried to reduce all the sumi from the image. I have posted a side by side comparison of the two photos at the same size. Note the reflected lights in the image and also the shadow of the show tank. Even without these clues, it is easy to spot that the right image was poorly doctored.

Where did the right image come from, Ray?

- Wayne, thinks Dick Benbow has nothing to defend as the doctored up image (from the same photo) looks terrible and no one would want to buy that fish for $2K... because it is a digitally ugly koi.

[RayJordan]

Wayne,
You are correct the photo is not an orginal of the showa as tosai. I wish I had a real photo of this years AJS GC as tosai but I don't. I was told that as tosai it had almost no finished sumi and the same unbalanced kohaku pattern seen as a adult. I did the "poor" photoshop version just to emphasize a point not to trick anyone. My intention was to show that it is very difficult to predict how baby showas will develop. A lot harder than kohaku and even sanke (IMO)

Your best clues have to do with evaluating the overall quality and especially the quality of the conformation, beni, and the skin. These features are very difficult to see accurately in even a good photos much less poor ones. My post was trying to teach a different way to look at showas when you purchase them as babies. It was not intended to be a accurate historical photo.