Polygeyser vs Alpha 1 and Pump recommendations

[CBRS2K]

Hi All,

I'm new to this hobby and looking to build my first pond. I am in the process of putting together my equipment list. If I decide to go with a pressurized filter set up, I am trying to decide between the Polygeyer and Alpha 1 offerings. From a sizing standpoint, I am looking at the units that contain about 6 cu ft of media (polygeyser DF5/6 and Alpha 1 6.0 units).

My pond specifics (at least on paper) are as follows:

• Approx. 6000 gals
• 2 4" Bottom Drains and Skimmer pairings feeding 2 independent settling/pre-filter chambers
• The settling/pre-filter chambers would then feed into a manifold connected to the pump, feeding the pressurized filter
• Exitting the pump the flow would need to feed 3 "shear" falls with a total width of approx 72"

My questions are as follows:

1) Has anyone done any type of comparisons between the performance of the Polygeyser and Alpha 1 units? I've heard some pretty good things about the Alpha 1 but not a whole lot about the Polygesyer (but the concept sounds interesting)

2) Does anyone have any information on the flow restrictions (feet of head) that either of these filters place on a system? I hear that both are "low head" systems, but I would like to get some numbers that i can use to help with pump sizing requirements

3) I understand that in order to support the (total) fall width that I am looking to build, I will need somewhere between 3500 - 7000+ gals/hr of flow. Only thing is, I don't know what a 3500 gal/hr flow would look like (for this fall sizing) so it's hard for me to tell if 3500 gal/hr would be "sufficient" or if I really need to be shooting for the upper end of the spectrum. I don't want to have anemic looking falls. Can anyone help me with this?

4) I'm debating between plumbing a single (larger) pump into my system, or setting up 2 smaller pumps to provide for a little greater flow and provide me with a built in backup, in case one of the pumps should fail. If I go with a dual pump set up, I think that I could realize some additional savings by shutting one of the pumps down in the evening and during the winter months, where I'm guessing that waste production would be reduced. Each pump would be sized to cycle the pond at either a 90 minute or 2 hour interval. Is logic regarding a 2 pump set up "reasonable"?

5) If I go with a 2 pump set up, I think I've read that hooking the pumps in "serial" fashion would maintain a consistent flow rate, but greatly increase (double) the head pressure the system is capable of. A parallel set up would increase (double) the flow rate, while keeping maintaining the head pressure limitation of a single pump system. This all sounds reasonable. However, I saw a set up where someone had a serial pump set up where it "looked like" flow rate increased when both pumps were engaged. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[mynamy1]

For a 6K gallon pond you need only one 4-in bottom drain. Are the Polygeyer and Alpha 1 bead filters? If so you can do much much better with an open system of submerged media (like JMats/Matala) and TT. MA. Le

[CBRS2K]

Quote: Originally Posted by mynamy1 For a 6K gallon pond you need only one 4-in bottom drain. Are the Polygeyer and Alpha 1 bead filters? If so you can do much much better with an open system of submerged media (like JMats/Matala) and TT. MA. Le

Hi Mynamy,

I thought about an open (gravity fed) system, but didn't think that I had the real estate to build one that would be sufficient for the pond. My filter bay will be limited to approx 4' x 8' (perhaps 6' x 8' at a stretch).

Like I said, I'm new to this, so any input of open system sizing is appreciated.

Thanks

[mynamy1]

CBRS2K, as a newbie you do the right thing to do extensive research before actual building your pond project.

The best filtration follows ONE simple rule: the seperation of mechanical and biological filtration. Bead filters violate this rule so its role should be reduced to zero or polishing water only.

If you are short of X and Y dimensions for filtration, why don't you create some Z dimension (ie. height) for a change? How about above ground/water level bio tank that hides behind a waterfall? TT (trickle tower) can also be located at some hidden corner?

The Pond Sieve can replace a bulky settling tank for mechanical. To know more about this screen mech. filter, type the name @ Google. There are several dealers carry this product. MA.Le

ps. what city are you in?

[moikoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by CBRS2K Hi Mynamy, I thought about an open (gravity fed) system, but didn't think that I had the real estate to build one that would be sufficient for the pond. My filter bay will be limited to approx 4' x 8' (perhaps 6' x 8' at a stretch). Like I said, I'm new to this, so any input of open system sizing is appreciated. Thanks

my chamber foot print is 10.5 X 6.5 X 4 ft deep it contains three 450 gal chambers. can you make your chamber 6 X 8 X 6 ft deep ?

[mynamy1]

It is a good idea to incorperate the ease of maintenance into a fresh design. The payoff is huge: the life of the pond and better water quality!

Since space is a concern, a dynamic-media bio filter (aka Bio-Reactor of Sweetwater or Nexus of EA) is more compact than the (static) submerged media design biofilter.

As long as the pond has a properly-sized botton drain, any thing else behind this drain can be changed or modified easily. And in the case of CBRS2K one 4-in b. drain (with air dome) would do just fine. MA. Le

[koiczar]

CBRS2K

As Mynammy mentioned some sound practices, I would like a little clarification:

Quote: Originally Posted by CBRS2K Hi All, I'm new to this hobby and looking to build my first pond. I am in the process of putting together my equipment list. If I decide to go with a pressurized filter set up, I am trying to decide between the Polygeyer and Alpha 1 offerings. From a sizing standpoint, I am looking at the units that contain about 6 cu ft of media (polygeyser DF5/6 and Alpha 1 6.0 units). My pond specifics (at least on paper) are as follows: Approx. 6000 gals What are the pond dimensions - length x width x depth? 2 4" Bottom Drains and Skimmer pairings feeding 2 independent settling/pre-filter chambers Depending on the answer to #1 above, 1 BD might/might not be enough How large are the settlement chambers planned to be? The settling/pre-filter chambers would then feed into a manifold connected to the pump, feeding the pressurized filter If two BDs are used, use two separate parallel systems Exitting the pump the flow would need to feed 3 "shear" falls with a total width of approx 72" I have attached a picture (albeit not very clear) of my waterfall. The width of the falls before splitting to the two weirs is approx. 30". The two weirs are 14" and 16" respectively. They are fed by an 1/8th hp Aquaflo which puts out 3600gph at 4.5' of head. The pump feeds a model 2000 Spirex vortex, gravity fed to a 155 gal Kormex tank with 8 vertical pieces of J-mat. The falls is gravity fed to the tune of about 3150gph. So, if you are going for this type of flow on your waterfall, you would need to upsize your flow to at least 6000gph. Doing so, would make a good candidate for installing a Bakki-type shower system at the top of the falls. That would give you some very nice bio following your SC-Pump-Pressurized filter situation. My questions are as follows: 1) Has anyone done any type of comparisons between the performance of the Polygeyser and Alpha 1 units? I've heard some pretty good things about the Alpha 1 but not a whole lot about the Polygesyer (but the concept sounds interesting) Unfortunately, haven't got any data on them. I only install the Aqua Ultima on customer ponds where necessary. 2) Does anyone have any information on the flow restrictions (feet of head) that either of these filters place on a system? I hear that both are "low head" systems, but I would like to get some numbers that i can use to help with pump sizing requirements Most advertise that they're designed for 'low head" but in practical application, once they get "seasoned" they cause a tremendous amount of head pressure, thus loss of flow. 3) I understand that in order to support the (total) fall width that I am looking to build, I will need somewhere between 3500 - 7000+ gals/hr of flow. Only thing is, I don't know what a 3500 gal/hr flow would look like (for this fall sizing) so it's hard for me to tell if 3500 gal/hr would be "sufficient" or if I really need to be shooting for the upper end of the spectrum. I don't want to have anemic looking falls. Can anyone help me with this? See above comment about the waterfall 4) I'm debating between plumbing a single (larger) pump into my system, or setting up 2 smaller pumps to provide for a little greater flow and provide me with a built in backup, in case one of the pumps should fail. If I go with a dual pump set up, I think that I could realize some additional savings by shutting one of the pumps down in the evening and during the winter months, where I'm guessing that waste production would be reduced. Each pump would be sized to cycle the pond at either a 90 minute or 2 hour interval. Is logic regarding a 2 pump set up "reasonable"? Running two separate systems (redundancy) is always better than one big pump trying to do the job. You're thinking is right about the second being a back up but don't ever turn one off for the sake of electrical savings. By the right size pumps to start with, shop for reliability and efficiency and you'll be much happier in the long run. 5) If I go with a 2 pump set up, I think I've read that hooking the pumps in "serial" fashion would maintain a consistent flow rate, but greatly increase (double) the head pressure the system is capable of. A parallel set up would increase (double) the flow rate, while keeping maintaining the head pressure limitation of a single pump system. This all sounds reasonable. However, I saw a set up where someone had a serial pump set up where it "looked like" flow rate increased when both pumps were engaged. Does anyone have any experience with this? I've heard of it but never used it. If you run two systems, and you want to use a pressurized filter in the middle then use 2 Aqua Ultima 6000 units. You could get away with two 1/4hp pumps and they would backwash these units just great. I know, because I have installed over 10 systems with this configuration and all are working just fine - no problem with backwashing either (provided you do PROPER routine backwashing). Mike Thanks in advance for your help.

[CBRS2K]

Hi All,

Thanks for all of your input and sorry for this late response. I had to leave on a business trip and am responding from Austria.

Here's a little more info about what I am trying to do.....

• I've attached a drawing of the pond layout that I am looking to build
  • The main pond is the large section in the middle
  • The two "wings" are supposed to serve multiple purposes:
    • Settlement Chamber (sloped from BD feed end down to pump/biofilter intake)
    • Pre-/Mechanical Filter (perhaps using approx 1' from center around intake to pump/biofiltration to house layered Matala media (black, blue and grey) which I am hoping will provide good mechanical filtration and decent "initial" biological filtration
    • Watergarden (a compromise, since my wife want "some" plants in the pond. I figured the plants could inhabit the top 8" to 12" of the settlement wings and provide additional nitrate filtration)
  • I'm configured 2 4" bottom drains with aeration due to the length of the pond (26'). I didn't think that one BD would be sufficient, unless I had a steep grade from one end of the pond to the other. Since the main viewing area will be around the center, I wanted the "wells" to be there as well.
    
    Each bottom drain would feed its own dedicated settlement "wing" (chamber)

I originally had the biofiltration chambers built into the pond (centered, 3' into the pond, behind a 5' high wall supporting falls). Under this option, the falls would have been gravity fed by wet/dry filtration towers. This layout looled good "on paper, but when I layed the design out in the yard, the filter wall took up too much pond space (proportionally), so I had to move the filtration "next to" the pond. This move also reduced the amount of available space that I had to allocate to the final filtration area.

Due to the reduction in final filtration real estate, I "thought" that the best way to get adequate filtration, and enough pressurized flow to feed the falls, would be to switch to a pressurized filter set up (a la Alpha1 or Polygeyser). The other option would be to gravity feed into 2 independent submerged biofiltration bins (perhaps filled with more Matala media (blue and grey) and pump feed the falls from there. I did not know if the latter would give me sufficient bio filtration capacity (each bio bin would be about 2'x3'x(18" or 2' deep), so I opted for the pressurized filter option. If my assumption is incorrect, please let me know, as I would prefer a gravity fed system for both flow efficiencies and maintenance reasons (as I assume that I would be able to push my maintenance (cleaning) schedule out to a semi-annual cycle as opposed to a weekly, or bi-weekly, backflush schedule.

Starting out (for the first 2 to 3 years) I doubt that I will be pushing my filtration system. I plan on starting small, a few 4" to 6" fish, growing them and adding to my collection as time goes by. Ultimately, I would like to have the pond stock grow to about 18 to 24 "good sized" koi. It is this "end state" that I would like to build my filtration capacity to handle, so I won't have to worry about replacing equipment and re-designing my systems a couple years down the road.

Once again, thanks for all of your help so far and any additional input that you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

[koiczar]

Question - If your main pond is to be 26' long, and you're estimating the gallonage at only 6450, how deep is this pond planned to be? I see you have aspirations of growing 18-24 "good sized" koi - what is your definition of a GOOD SIZED KOI? Seems we all have a different opinion on this and it would help to know yours before further comments are made.

Mike

[CBRS2K]

Hi,

The pond will be 3' deep around the sides, sloping to 4' to 4.5' around the BDs. The wings (settlement chamber/pre-filter/water gardens, will be 3' wide and 3' deep at the inlet side, sloping to about 4' deep at the end siphoning the pre-filtered water to the bio-filter.

By "good sized" koi, I am looking at the 20"+ (to 30"+ range, if possible to grow in this size pond).