where's the ammonia

[paladin_k2]

Yes Koicop, your thread that you link to is the one I was refering to. That thread was the most recent good summary and discussion on the salt topic. I was somewaht surprised that there was not a "Salt" thread somewhere in the Best of Bito archive just because of how often the topic comes up.

To salt or not to salt always seems to be an emotional personal argument instead of a truly coherent discussion. I don't know why it should inflame such passion. I respect all positions under the right circumstances.

For me the basic salting issue other than for medicinal purposes is best summarized in you large section 6 that is near the end of the first lengthy post.

The osmotic pressure reducing stress issue during introduction of large numbers of new fish to a new pond ecosystem still seems to reflect favorably on maintaining a salt concentration of between 1 and 2 ppt (parts per thousand = approximately lbs/100gal).

Koi are natrurally internally at about 9ppt just like humans and the expend small amounts of energy to naturally maintain this level wich supports other critical natural functions. The amount of energy the consume in maintaining this balance goes up exponentially as the difference between their environ ment and their internal levels goes up.

I personally maintain a very low salt level at only .05 to .5 ppt and I do not really obsess about refreshing it as we process water changes throughout the warm season. I sort of watch it during the spring waking up period for the general pond population.

It sounds to me like Powerman moved all 10 of his koi out of a holding/quarantine tank at one time into the new large 14,000 gallon pond. That would be one of those times I would prophylacticly make sure the salt level in the receiving water was up to within the 1 to 1.5 ppt range (recognizing that floating plants hate it). Some people would go even further and push the level up to the 2.5 to 3.0 ppt range. I would then just let it fall back to what I consider normal as I processed normal water changes out through the irrigation system.

[KoiCop]

p_k2 . . .

A well reasoned response, to be sure. But like JR said, your advice seems tailored "for the typical 3000- 5000 gallon pond with a full load of fish going through a new cycle."

Here we have 10 fish in 14,000 gallons -- and in this situation adding hundreds and hundreds of pounds of salt is, IMHO, totally unnecessary.

By the way, Welcome to 'Bito. Always glad to have another experienced ponder "on Board."

[KoiCop]

p_k2 . . .

You might be interested in another recent thread discussing starting up and cycling a new pond -- with some expanded discussion on the relative merits (or lack thereof) of using inorganic ammonium.

[MikeM]

When my pond was built 2 years ago I purposefully added green water. It was heavily filtered and stocked at about one koi per thousand gallons, of which 5 were rather small. They were fed moderately twice per day. I never had an ammonia reading. It was a period of weeks before a slight tinge of pink showed to indicate the presence of nitrite. It was gone in 48 hours or so. Never have had measurable ammonia or nitrite since.

I believe the combination of high aeration levels and unicellular algae took care of the low ammonia production until the nitrifiers got established. Then the bacteria were able to expand their population rapidly as feeding increased and the fish grew.

BTW, Had a bucket of mature kaldnes media added to the Nexus from the beginning thanks to the generosity of HenryC. This is not much of an option for a lot of folks in these bio-secure times.

[powerman]

Quote: Originally Posted by MikeM When my pond was built 2 years ago I purposefully added green water. It was heavily filtered and stocked at about one koi per thousand gallons, of which 5 were rather small. They were fed moderately twice per day. I never had an ammonia reading. It was a period of weeks before a slight tinge of pink showed to indicate the presence of nitrite. It was gone in 48 hours or so. Never have had measurable ammonia or nitrite since. I believe the combination of high aeration levels and unicellular algae took care of the low ammonia production until the nitrifiers got established. Then the bacteria were able to expand their population rapidly as feeding increased and the fish grew. BTW, Had a bucket of mature kaldnes media added to the Nexus from the beginning thanks to the generosity of HenryC. This is not much of an option for a lot of folks in these bio-secure times.

i have an indoor tank with an ultima 2 bead filter and a bakki shower and the outdoor pond also has a bakki shower as part of its system so i was going to switch some of the bacteria house media as a starter but i was kind of waiting for a little ammonia first... i wont wait anymore i will just do it...i will be happy if i never get a readable ammnonia level as long as the bio filter can still get established..it is good to know that others with low stocking levels have had success without a nasty spike to get things rolling...by the way the indoor tank has four smaller fish in it