Hoshikin Kohaku

[Super Kindai]

Great. they are the REAL first class Hoshikin Beni

[moikoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by mynamy1 Oh! the beni is so so beautifully red! That's a bunch of cute jumbo tosai? How is that sound? MA. Le

[dcny]

That sashi is very, very interesting. Did you have the chance to ask the breeders about it? I would love to hear what they told you about it.

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by mynamy1 Oh! the beni is so so beautifully red! That's a bunch of cute jumbo tosai? How is that sound? MA. Le

Hey, that sounds like sarcasm 101! I got a PhD in that.

I would like to clarify some things. These were bought out of a tank of about 100 of Hoshikins best Jumbo Tosai that were FOR SALE. I have never, ever said that they were Tategoi. In fact, I did not ask to even see Hoshikin' Tategoi Tosai. I do not think that you can even buy a Tategoi Tosai from Hoshikin for under $5,000.00 wholesale, so if anyone does try to sell you a Tosai from Hoshikin as Tategoi you SHOULD be wary. I did say that these Tosai could be kept with Hoshikin in his mud ponds, but not because they are Tategoi, but because the quality would merit it. Hoshikin charges $200.00 per Tosai for a grow out fee. I do not know why Mike said what he said but it was innacurate and incorrect. Again these are very High Quality Jumbo Tosai from Hoshikin.

Russell


P.S. I will post more pictures as I can.

[JasPR]

I was enjoying the thread until----

"I do not think that you can even buy a Tategoi Tosai from Hoshikin for under $5,000.00 wholesale",

I'm sorry but that statement is way way over the top! Hoshikin is NOT Momotaro and he is not Sakai ( either of them) his tategoi tosai are not all $5000 each. I mean, WHO do you think is paying $5000 each for hundreds of Tosai he is producing ??? That would mean that 400 good tosai would sell for two million dollars ( 400 X $5,000 each). In the 22 years he has been breeding koi that would mean he is worth 44 million dollars! And that would be before the remaining four years of production! Shall we call him worth an even 80 million? You have been to his home right? I mean , you saw it right? ( I know, I know, I'm bad)
Now koi breeders are mostly rich guys, but not THAT rich.

And as far as $200 growing fee goes, its free when you insist upon it as part of the purchase price. That is pretty much a standard understanding in the entire region, at least for the first year. JR

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR I was enjoying the thread until---- "I do not think that you can even buy a Tategoi Tosai from Hoshikin for under $5,000.00 wholesale", I'm sorry but that statement is way way over the top! Hoshikin is NOT Momotaro and he is not Sakai ( either of them) his tategoi tosai are not all $5000 each. I mean, WHO do you think is paying $5000 each for hundreds of Tosai he is producing ??? That would mean that 400 good tosai would sell for two million dollars ( 400 X $5,000 each). In the 22 years he has been breeding koi that would mean he is worth 44 million dollars! And that would be before the remaining four years of production! Shall we call him worth an even 80 million? You have been to his home right? I mean , you saw it right? ( I know, I know, I'm bad) Now koi breeders are mostly rich guys, but not THAT rich. And as far as $200 growing fee goes, its free when you insist upon it as part of the purchase price. That is pretty much a standard understanding in the entire region, at least for the first year. JR

Hey, I guess you just can't please everyone. Does Hoshikin even produce 400 TATEGOI Tosai? He did not even have 400 Tosai in his three top tanks and they were not Tategoi. I don't know where you get your math, but I don't see it, no one has 400 TATEGOI Tosai,(Well, maybe some? ). So, if his BEST two year olds start at 1 million Yen, why do you think that $5,000 is too much for TATEGOI Tosai? JR, I don't really want to turn this into a debate though. If you think $5,000 is high I am sorry, but from what I saw it would not be an unreasonable guess. Yes, it was a guess.
I did see his house, he has moved down to the flat land and he is right next to one of Dianichi's greenhouses. It is a very nice, big house and his greenhouses are first rate. I think he is doing quite well.

As far as the growing fee, I asked, he said $200.00. Everyone I have dealt with charges $300 to $500 a year, even for the first year, but I have never insisted on getting it for nothing.

[Super Kindai]

Well, Hoshikin has a reputation as a reasonably price compared with big name guys such as S, D, or M but it could be 5K or even 10K for his top of the top 10 or 20.....but not entire tosaidate fish.

[dick benbow]

Hi Russ, thanks for posting the pictures .

very impressive koi! "good on you" for bringing so many home for your customers to select from.

I really liked the white on the koi. Talk about beni that looked like wet paint!

looking forward to when you get some more time to post

[JasPR]

No one has 400 tategoi at age one???!! Bud, tategoi is a promising koi for next year. EVERYONE has 400 keepers! Or they'd have no two year olds!!

If two pairs throw off 200,000 fry ( a very modest number) and 3/4 are thrown away ( a very heavy hand in culling for an established line of known breeders), that leaves 50,000. If only two percent are keepers ( the rest are tateshita for export) for next year ( and with kohaku of predictabel parents, Tosho San will confirm it is a much larger number/ percentage) that is 1000 fish. If the breed stashes away 500 for next year, that leaves 500 for sale. These number are very conservative as many breeders have multiple pairs.

So I repeat, 500 hidden tategoi for next year grow out, 500 tategoi for sale and 49,000 tateshita for sale from between $35- $120 wholesale.

Here is a photo of a famous breeders hold back tategoi-

[JasPR]

That's right Kindai, the top ten fish are off the charts but not the top two percent of production. And it is that two percent that become the two year old inventory next year unless you are willing to pay two year old prices for one year olds.

There is risk here for breeders. JR