Hoshikin Kohaku

[Super Kindai]

Kohaku is difficult, isn't it ?

[Super Kindai]

Quote: Originally Posted by Russell Peters I thought you might want to see this one.

Ummm, close but... Jumbo san is No1, so far

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by Super Kindai Ummm, close but... Jumbo san is No1, so far

You will be able to see it as the owner is someone you know.

[koiczar]

Quote: Originally Posted by Russell Peters Yeah, me too, My name IS Russell Peters. LOL

What is this? What's my line? LOL

Russ,

I must say, upon unloading these fish, I was really impressed by what you brought in. I've seen the Maruyama's, Sakai (Isawa), but these, a serious cut above the rest! Great job! I know I'll enjoy mine when it comes home.

Thanks

Mike

[Russell Peters]

The REAL tategoi ( or the mythical version of the word) are the rare fish that show traits or 'something' that makes the fish a 'keeper' for more personal reasons within the breeder. Maybe as a future brood fish, maybe a fish that could be, at age six, his 'lottery ticket' to the 'Show'. Or maybe a fish that works out in a breeding experiment and lets the breeder know he is on the right track. Or maybe a fish that peaks curiosity within the breeder regarding a new pairing. These fish are not for sale.

This is why 'tategoi' only has meaning within the context of the conversation. That is also why ' potential fish' is the best interpretation I have heard so far as it covers it all.[/quote]


So JR,

What do you think if a dealer posts that they have "REAL Tategoi" for sale?

[JasPR]

well first of all, I'd have to have a guarantee that they were female as the 'dream tategoi; I described, is a super fish that comes all together five years from now. So no males need apply. Secondly, the fish will also have to be heading towards 32 inches in this dream of 2012. I don't think we are looking at that dream with several of these fish.
Potential? certainly, absolutely and positively. Top potential as dream tategoi ? Probably not.
Sorry. You asked. JR

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR well first of all, I'd have to have a guarantee that they were female as the 'dream tategoi; I described, is a super fish that comes all together five years from now. So no males need apply. Secondly, the fish will also have to be heading towards 32 inches in this dream of 2012. I don't think we are looking at that dream with several of these fish. Potential? certainly, absolutely and positively. Top potential as dream tategoi ? Probably not. Sorry. You asked. JR

Yes, I did ask, but I am not referring to my Hoshikins, I just wanted to know what you thought about it in general. I, personally, don't call any Koi that I have purchased Tategoi and do believe that the term is over used. I have never referred to the Hoshikins in this thread as Tategoi. I called them high quality Jumbo Tosai. It was a misunderstanding by others that brought the word Tategoi into this thread. I think it is a term that is over used as a sales pitch to give people the impression that they are getting more than they payed for.
I do appreciate your honesty.

[JasPR]

Then we are in agreement again! If we were to be kind, we could say that a dealer is using the term as the most liberal and broadest use of that term- a fish that will improve over what it is now. Nother more and nothing less. But then again, all tategoi are unfinished but not all unfinished koi are tategoi..

We have not come far from the days when we believed that a really great little fish that wins baby champion can grow up to win young, mature and eventually Grand Champion. So tategoi as a concept, is a lot to ask of the beginner to grasp as a word that varies within the context that you are using it. Some dealers know this and take full advantage of that learning curve. And some young backyard dealers are innocent and are being taken for a ride by Japanese distributors, regarding tategoi. They are in awe and so they believe everything their 'sensei' tells them. Until they learn the business.
Your jumbos are nice. No question. But I have seen a lot of jumbos with no pattern at all , just size and bright coloring ( good bones and good skin). But that is all. They tend to break towards 'males' a large percentage of the time and they have no future in a koi show as they have not pattern.Once the 'glow of Japan' leaves the skin in terms of gloss and color intensity, and the rest of the stock here catches up with it in size, the fish are often not even fish that place in the show.
Buyer beware. JR

[Russell Peters]

A nice four step.

[Russell Peters]

Another four step.