ich

[kelliewindham]

Good morning all> I have an 11 in koi with ick. He/she is in a quarintine tank. I have been treating with salt and quick cure for 2 days and no improvement. Please advise on the best course of action. Also the ick is fairly bad case, and his/her immune system is weak from a recent bout with oxegyn deprivation. thanks

[MikeM]

There are a number of off-the-shelf Ich remedies that can be used in an aquarium or other smallish container. Follow directions and be sure you know the accurate gallonage... don't guess or estimate. Warming the water to 80F is usually recommended.

In a pond/large QT, my preference is salt at 0.6% concentration for two weeks, followed by weekly 30-50% water changes. (Most recommend that the salt be added gradually over a period of days to reduce shock to the fish. I add to 0.3% immediately and then to 0.6% after 8-12 hours. I personally believe there is benefit to shocking any parasites, but if the fish are very weak, my practice may not be a good one.) Symptoms disappear after 7-10 days, but maintaining the salt above 0.3% for 3 weeks helps prevent a repeat outbreak and may be essential in water temps below 78F.

[JasPR]

I agree Mike. Ich is the only parasite I know that will respond to salt treatment- eventually. If the fish are in danger I would step it up to something stronger like PP, if not, salt will wear down the life stages of ich in about 5 days at 74 F. The reason they seen to linger Kellie, is the stages are killed but not all stages, all at once. So you tend to see them appear to be surviving depending on temperature ( warmer water increases the cycle and shortens each stage and exposes them to the chemo quicker). I assume you are doing your diagnosis based on 'white spots' as you do have the ability to scope them? JR

[kelliewindham]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR I agree Mike. Ich is the only parasite I know that will respond to salt treatment- eventually. If the fish are in danger I would step it up to something stronger like PP, if not, salt will wear down the life stages of ich in about 5 days at 74 F. The reason they seen to linger Kellie, is the stages are killed but not all stages, all at once. So you tend to see them appear to be surviving depending on temperature ( warmer water increases the cycle and shortens each stage and exposes them to the chemo quicker). I assume you are doing your diagnosis based on 'white spots' as you do have the ability to scope them? JR

Thanks, yes he/she is looking like it has dusted heavily with salt or sugar, exspecially on tail fills. I will continue to slowly heat the water to 74 degrees. Its been 85-90 here for going on a month, but wouldn't you know when I need it to be warm we have a cool snap. water temp now is only about 65. figures

[mitten]

Maybe check that quik cure label. I believe it is a formalin treatment and that it shouldn't be mixed with salt. Double check me please, folks, no personal experience with quik cure, just ProformC.

[RayJordan]

If possible please scrape and scope to be positive that you really have ich and also that you don't have additional kinds of parasites. Ich is short for a long scientific name that means "fish harvester." It is one of two parasites (costia is the other) that can attack koi and kill really quickly. It is unsual to be able to see actual white spots on koi and usually needs id with scope. I have seen white spots on goldfish and other types of tropical fish however.

I have had little personal success with commercial meds in treating ich. Most are diluted to prevent buyers from overdosing their ponds. Been told the reasoning is most hobbyist overestimate their pond volume so they dilute their meds to try and prevent overdosing. Problem is if you underdose Ich will quickly kill your fish. I see lots of posts on forums about increasing the dose of commerical meds by 50% to 100%. The commerical med labelsw I have seen do not print the actual concentrations of formilin and Malichite Green. I prefer to mix the medication myself and then I know for sure the actual concentration I am using is correct.

[JasPR]

I agree Ray. The pet store product is weak as species like tetras are being treated regularly, so I wouldn't worry about the usual precautions Mickey. The only think you might keep an eye on is the condition of the gills in the face of these treatments.
Ray if you read Kellie's post below about dying fish, we have gone around about the scraping and someone was going to see if a regional KHA could do that for her. I think it was then confirmed see was far away? Lost 'the plot' on that one?
I'd do the PP and kill the most dangerous problems- trichodina, costia, ich, chilodonella and also it will work on the flexibacter and/or pseudomonas on the fins. Then kellie, you still have done nothing for flukes, another very common parasite, but that is cost of not scraping and knowing exactly what you are facing here. JR

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by kelliewindham I will continue to slowly heat the water to 74 degrees.

Kellie . . .

Forget the 'slowly' part. Ramp your QT water temp up to the 74-78 degree range ASAP.

1. Your koi will adjust to the increase just fine.
2. Your koi's immune system performs at optimum levels at those temps.
3. The ich's reproductive cycle will speed up at those temps, thereby shortening the time required to eliminate all stages.

[paladin_k2]

I sure am glad that I have the fun little piece of equipment called a UV Sterilizer to help make sure this question is never an issue.

Our six tube sterilizer can run at either 40W or any level all the way up to 240W depending on the task required. The 80W level is usually enough to nuke any algea as well as parasites like the dreaded ich.

If you have a small UV sterilizer you can run it on your QT tank using a power head to drive the water through the system.

[myrubi04]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR II'd do the PP and kill the most dangerous problems- trichodina, costia, ich, chilodonella and also it will work on the flexibacter and/or pseudomonas on the fins. Then kellie, you still have done nothing for flukes, another very common parasite, but that is cost of not scraping and knowing exactly what you are facing here. JR

JR, when you say PP are you talking about Potassium Permanganate? I had purchased some new fish several years back that were infested with flukes. I used Potassium Permanganate on the first day, then again 4 days later and it completely wiped out the flukes.