Variety classification - Page 2 - Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine

PRYML · 05-23-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by schildkoi

For show purposes, its real easy...."Gin Rin B"..

GR Matsakawabaki
Neat looking Koi. Pictures are tough to "judge" a koi by to say the least. Does it have Gine Rin Scales up to and on the "ridge line"? May GR koi are lacking GR scales in this area. Also, is the GR "brushed" back? That would be 2 of the major components for judging this koi.

Steve

Hi Steve,

Can you clarify what you mean by the "ridge line" please...

schildkoi · 05-23-2007

is the "ridge" on the top of the koi that extend from the front of the dorsal to the head. Many GRs do not have GR scalation along this line and seem bare.

Take a look at the GR Kohakus:

Maruju Tategoi Tosai From Genki - KoiShack

The best example of one having GR scalation onm this ridgeline is the one on the lower right. Based on the pictures, none of the others do (but pictures can most definitely lie).

Make sense now?

Steve

gregbickal · 05-24-2007

GR Matsakawabaki is what I got from last years spawning of Gin Soragoi female to Regular Kohaku.

PRYML · 05-24-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by schildkoi

is the "ridge" on the top of the koi that extend from the front of the dorsal to the head. Many GRs do not have GR scalation along this line and seem bare.

Take a look at the GR Kohakus:

Maruju Tategoi Tosai From Genki - KoiShack

The best example of one having GR scalation onm this ridgeline is the one on the lower right. Based on the pictures, none of the others do (but pictures can most definitely lie).

Make sense now?

Steve

Yes, it does. Thanks, Steve... I never really noticed it before

PRYML · 05-24-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregbickal

GR Matsakawabaki is what I got from last years spawning of Gin Soragoi female to Regular Kohaku.

Hello Greg,

Interesting... was it something you expected, or were you hoping for something else? What other varieties were you able to get from that particular pairing?

NCreekKoi · 09-25-2007

I'm a little late into this thread, but I too (un-beknown to me) purchased what was told to me was a 10-12" Hajiro (all black with some white on the pec fins). Within 3-4 months, the koi went from black with a little white to all white of the gin rin variety. I honestly thought it was sick, but when nothing happened, we just accepted that he was going to be all white, but not a realy white, an off white with ginrin.

Then a year or so later during spring, he started developing some black spots again, but not too much. It lasted a couple of months... turned back to white with just a touch of black near the tail fin.

I did some research and like you found a Gin Rin Hijaro (the 'i' and 'a' interchanged), so I inquired with the company, but no response. More research led me to GinRin Matsukawabake, and actually someone has said Kin GinRin, but now I think that is splitting hairs.

A couple of months back I started feeding some color enhancing food and he started developing some sumi on both sides of the face and a little on the forehead. He's now at least 3 years old and about 20-21". I'm curious to see what happens next, but I'm curious if he'll ever have sumi that will stay for an extended period of time.

My pond water is very soft, so I'm wondering if this keeps him on the white side.

Anyway, thought I'm late in responding, I thought I would add on. Thanks for the info from everyone.

mike

PapaBear · 09-25-2007

Your water mineralization and temperatures will both influence the way it finishes, and the older it gets the more stable the black/white should become. It is a bit odd that Hajiro/Hijaro

are being used to market Matsukawabake type Koi. Maybe the "good luck" tradition that is associated with Hajiro/Hageshiro/Karasugoi is part of the marketing angle.

Spudsy · 03-21-2008

does anyone know what pairing is used to obtain fully scaled kumonryu?

MikeM · 03-21-2008

?? If it is fully scaled, it is not Kumonryu.

JasPR · 03-21-2008

Right. No such thing as a 'scaled kumonryu' as that would be a matsukawabake.

The karasu clan is a pretty easy and also VERY important early step in the development of koi, and therefore, the big picture understanding of Nishikigoi.

The first degree karasugoi is the black koi. It is not a black magoi! It is a genetic sport with hyper melanin production. It is a black nishikigoi and a foundation variety.
You will often here Japanese breeders telling customer dealers that karasu goi with white bellies are 'better than' karasu goi with red bellies. Anyone know why? - JR

05-23-2007	#12 (permalink)
schildkoi Jumbo Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 748	The "ridge line" is the "ridge" on the top of the koi that extend from the front of the dorsal to the head. Many GRs do not have GR scalation along this line and seem bare. Take a look at the GR Kohakus: Maruju Tategoi Tosai From Genki - KoiShack The best example of one having GR scalation onm this ridgeline is the one on the lower right. Based on the pictures, none of the others do (but pictures can most definitely lie). Make sense now? Steve

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05-24-2007	#13 (permalink)
gregbickal Jumbo Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Toddville Iowa Posts: 539	GR Matsakawabaki is what I got from last years spawning of Gin Soragoi female to Regular Kohaku.

09-25-2007	#16 (permalink)
NCreekKoi Fry Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 1	I'm a little late into this thread, but I too (un-beknown to me) purchased what was told to me was a 10-12" Hajiro (all black with some white on the pec fins). Within 3-4 months, the koi went from black with a little white to all white of the gin rin variety. I honestly thought it was sick, but when nothing happened, we just accepted that he was going to be all white, but not a realy white, an off white with ginrin. Then a year or so later during spring, he started developing some black spots again, but not too much. It lasted a couple of months... turned back to white with just a touch of black near the tail fin. I did some research and like you found a Gin Rin Hijaro (the 'i' and 'a' interchanged), so I inquired with the company, but no response. More research led me to GinRin Matsukawabake, and actually someone has said Kin GinRin, but now I think that is splitting hairs. A couple of months back I started feeding some color enhancing food and he started developing some sumi on both sides of the face and a little on the forehead. He's now at least 3 years old and about 20-21". I'm curious to see what happens next, but I'm curious if he'll ever have sumi that will stay for an extended period of time. My pond water is very soft, so I'm wondering if this keeps him on the white side. Anyway, thought I'm late in responding, I thought I would add on. Thanks for the info from everyone. mike

09-25-2007	#17 (permalink)
PapaBear Oyagoi Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Davenport, Oklahoma Posts: 1,770	Your water mineralization and temperatures will both influence the way it finishes, and the older it gets the more stable the black/white should become. It is a bit odd that Hajiro/Hijaro are being used to market Matsukawabake type Koi. Maybe the "good luck" tradition that is associated with Hajiro/Hageshiro/Karasugoi is part of the marketing angle.

03-21-2008	#18 (permalink)
Spudsy Fry Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 6	does anyone know what pairing is used to obtain fully scaled kumonryu?

03-21-2008	#19 (permalink)
MikeM Honmei Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Orlando, Florida Posts: 4,658	?? If it is fully scaled, it is not Kumonryu.

03-21-2008	#20 (permalink)
JasPR Oyagoi Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,471	Right. No such thing as a 'scaled kumonryu' as that would be a matsukawabake. The karasu clan is a pretty easy and also VERY important early step in the development of koi, and therefore, the big picture understanding of Nishikigoi. The first degree karasugoi is the black koi. It is not a black magoi! It is a genetic sport with hyper melanin production. It is a black nishikigoi and a foundation variety. You will often here Japanese breeders telling customer dealers that karasu goi with white bellies are 'better than' karasu goi with red bellies. Anyone know why? - JR