English Style Koi Shows A New Era

[JasPR]

O by the way, the Brits, the originator of the English style, have been doing it that way for 15 years now? The drop in their attendence was not from the style I think? I think people get 'show exhaustion' at some point? And the newer members are more interesting in equipment, health issues and buying fish, than showing fish. I guess its the same reason kids don't ride bikes or play baseball any more? Video games and My Space are the new focus.
I think shows will continue to struggle and will continue to be watered down by goldfish, longfin and water garden distractions. Actually, shows are just becoming more commercial and clickish and that is the greatest threat to the focus on koi and a the koi show itself. IMHO. JR

[RayJordan]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR We ( MAKC) did it at Longwood Gardens for years Ray. It wasn't that big a deal. In its crudest form it is done with VHS or DVD and ran into the viewing area every fifteen minutes or so of filming- 'almost live' I guess. We had the judges miked and had a live feed or delayed feed each year depending on circumstances. JR

Yes, I had heard that MAKC and I believe maybe another show or two had done something like that in the past. Would be neat to try again with the internet but it would take some significant resources.

[Bern]

English style (I'll never understand why we called it that, as opposed to British Style) was introduced over here in 1988 due to SVC, just at the time I got involved in the showing aspects of the hobby, so I suppose I grew up with it and knew no different. About 1997 just as we felt it was safe to go back into the water, a few shows incl our National switched back to Japanese style but then a mystery bug later identified as virus, and then KHV sent us back to our comfort zone.

From a spectators point of view; trying to follow the judging process while it happened was too confusing. We learned that the best way to compare the results was to wait until the judging was over and the results displayed. Then we were in the same position as the judges, having to walk back and forth between vats to compare the 1st with the 2nd and 3rd etc.

These exercises, undertaken with groups of like minded souls taught me many things.

1. That there were people that saw what they wanted to see and not what was before their eyes, and no explanation regardless of who it was from would make them change their mind.

2. That many of the decisions were so straightforward that the English style of display made no difference.

3. That those fine differences between several koi of similar quality required discipline and concentration, that I saw judges in a new light.

The period between 1988 and let's say approx 1994 saw a major change in how our judges were trained & selected. It became a much stricter process. It was no longer a case of judges having to adapt, it was a case of judges being made to fit the new discipline. I joined our training programme in 2003 emerging last year as a full judge so I can speak from experience.

For the rest of Nancy's original post, lack of show workers, ageing etc etc
influence of the Internet etc. It's the same over here. We need the same change of outlook as our judging programmes underwent. We need to harness the power of the Internet and bring into club life etc. But don't ask me how, I don't think anybody over here has that answer yet.

rgds
Bern

[dick benbow]

When I began gathering Rinko magazines and getting all the information about koi I could when I first started, the concern evern back then in Japan was that they were being hampered by lack of help as the old timers were wearing out and there didn't seem to be an "newbees" willing to pick up the slack.( that was 30 yrs ago folks)

when the japanese first started coming over to help judge they were amazed at the interest in familes ( non-male) over here (both UK and USA). But alas I don't think we've done anything to encourage the younger crowd. We have come full circle over here as well. Most clubs i know have fewer workers each year and always never younger.

there will always be challenges to life and hobbies. Like jeff S said, it's refreshing to cut back and find you can actually begin to have time to enjoy the hobby again. been there done that...

Shows are a means to educate the public. Once we have them at the venue
what do we do to educate them. All the programs are for club members. tategoi selection. Nothing wrong with pond building but most is bells and whistles for the more advanced. We really need to address this. Maybe a drawing by a club for kids where the winner gets a pond put in and fish donated and a year's free club member ship for a youngster to help get started.

somethings I'm noticing is the trend to have commercial enterprises (dealers)
host a koi show on their own property and then have some of the cost shared by a sponsor, perhaps a major koi food manufacturer. people enjoy these events cause there's no set up or take down, just the event to enjoy.
thery can come and go as they please.

I have seen clubs that use deliberately public venues and have plenty of looky lews but no direction for them. The result is no support from vendors as they fail to meet expenses and no new members for the club.

Mc donalds as a corporation learned along time ago as did disney that families would be interested if what you did created fun, education etc for the children. I know clubs like boy scouts and girl scouts earn merit pages for various projects. What's not educational about koi husbantry?

I think the BKKS and AKCA should take on this question and share information on what can be done to turn this issue around. I think we all agree that some of the best folks we've ever meet in our life come from koi circles. So how do we attract more of them?

[KoiCop]

An interesting thread. A few personal observations:

* Only a few will gravitate towards the upper echelons of the hobby -- most won't. Oh, well.

* While koi shows can be described as education disguised as competition, they are put on by and for the upper echelons of the hobby. No one else really cares enough.

* Some folks will aspire to join the upper levels of the hobby, not vice versa. Outreach, shmoutreach, the upper echelons of this hobby ain’t for everyone. We’re not talking stamp collecting here, people.

* Recruiting water gardeners into our clubs won't change the equilibrium -- and they won't be there to help when it comes time to put on our shows. Why should they?

* Because the upper echelons of the hobby require land, disposable income and time, it attracts a certain demographic -- ergo, youngsters, inner-city types and the cash-strapped will always be scarce at the upper echelons. Makes sense to me.

* If you want to show you should belong to your local club and/or help put on your local show. Otherwise, you’re a leech on the hobby.

* Never saw a Japanese-style show and no doubt never will. English-style works for me.

* Time and effort put into making koi shows easier on the koi and on the competitors is time and effort well spent. On the other hand, trying to turn koi shows into spectator events? Well, . . .

[Jeff Speck]

I think that post explains very well some of the lack of growth in those "upper echelons".

[KoiCop]

Jeff . . .

Like I said: Personal observations -- and I'm just trying to be honest, here.

By the way, I neither attacked nor disparaged the views espoused in your previous three posts on this thread, but I guess I could? Not that I wish to, but do please let me know if that's the game you want to play, OK?

[Jeff Speck]

Chalk it up as I took it wrong. Struck me as spit in the face of anyone outside your circle. Not looking for anything personal here either.

[KoiCop]

Jeff . . .

Fair enough.

By the way, Brenda and I aren't 'top echelon' hobbyists and probably never will be. So I certainly don't speak for 'them.'

We've only shown 4 times -- always in the smaller sizes; our first time was just 18 months ago, so we're very much newbies. But that doesn't stop us from admiring and aspiring.

We're very much kichi though -- for what that's worth!

[JasPR]

Jeff, with all due respect , you said you 'left the circle' to free up time for your own pond and your family. And although I FULLY support your decision to spend your free time with pond and family ( NOTHING more important), you tend to loose credibility/weighting in your opinions as a result. It is just the way it is.
In this hobby you need to be in it to win in your opinions. Otherwise you are a monday morning arm chair quarterback.
I enjoy reading your comments- I do. But you need to realize that you are a sideline commentator at best. The decisions and direction of the clubs and the organizations go to those 'in the game'. Again, just the way it is--

JR