Please report failures / bottom drains

[Brutuscz]

Quote: Originally Posted by gregbickal Ok, guys, since Brutuz is one of "those people", we need to use some Vulcan logic in the no pump in pond argument. I don't advocate having any pumps inside the pond, unless its a prop pump Here are my top 10 reasons for your consideration.... Clogging - Not talking about river-dance here. When you have the pump in the pond sucking up the gunk, its gonna clog. No matter how big of solids it will pull, something will clog it. Ever seen a frog get stuck in a pump. With our pumps on the end of the circut, they are alway pumping clean water, no chance of clogging. What happens when it clogs during the middle of the night, and your pump and filter are down until you discover it? Can a botom drain clog? Sure, but the item has to be thin enough to get in before it can clog up a 4" pipe. You might get a peice of something stuck on one side of the drain, but the rest of the drain remains open, still pulling water. Macerated Poop -Makes it harder to remove from system. Macerated Fish - Fish go in bottom drains occasionally, for whatever reason they pop the lid off or one is small enough. They wind up in the settling chamber and are returned safely to the pond. Your submersible pump is going to destroy that fish. Also see Clogging above. Fish Injury - Do you really want something else in your pond with a potential sharp edge that the koi are going to rub up against and get a possible wound on themselves? Electrical Consumption - How efficient is this pump you are wanting to use in comparison to say a Sequence or a WLim. Most sump pumps can't even compare. Electrical Hazard - GFI it all you want, are you sure its safe? Noise - Submersible pumps are noisy in the water. Don't ask me to prove it, but the submersible pumps I have used (mag drive) seem to bug the fish sounds wise. Flow & Design Options - In a gravity feed pump, the pump can do whatever we want with the water after it goes through the filter. Trickle tower, waterfall, TPR, etc. We can work with pressure on the back end. With your pump to filter situation, your filter location will will be limited in where the water can go afterward because it will have to be gravity fed back to the pond. No TPR Cleaning & Maintenance - If you want to clean pads, thats up to you, But I like just opening and closing a valve to clean my filter. Macerated poop, harder to remove. In your way plumbing- Ive dealt with this with retro fit over the liner bottom drains....You'll have a pump, cord, and pipe all visible in your pond and in your way anytime you want to catch a fish. Sure, you could pull the pump when you want to do this, but not having to sure makes life easier. Feel free to add to the list anyone... Oh yeah #11... Your Primary Concern Leak Hazzard "The winters in New England are damn cold..and a pipe could crack very easily if not installed perfectly." What senario is more likely to happen... Bottom drain: For some unexpected reason, Bottom drain starts leaking one day just out of the blue? As if, but ok, say it happened, ground shifted, rodent, earthquake, pipe froze and broke, etc... Best case senario, its a drip drip drip, into clay soil and you don't even notice it. Worst case its a big hole in sandy soil and all the water soaks into the ground overnight.... Submersible Pump: Same situation, something happens to the pipe that your pump is pumping through...Froze and broke, or say Your Filter Matts clog, and your pump runs over the filter and pumps your pond dry in whatever GPH it runs.... How many have heard this one before "a racoon knocked my pump hose out of my filter and it pumped my pond dry"

I must say greg.. your imagination is wonderful!!! You should work with speilberg for sure!!
Clogging...ran the tetra 4,000gph for years..never clogged once.
Macerated poop..are you joking...I mean really?!?! Filter pads remove it..no problem..quit crying, it aint an issue.
Macerated fish..Am I missing something here...Years with this system..never happened..ever...next!!!
Fish injury...ever see them after breeding?? Not any worse than that..again..your reaching buddy?!?!
Electrical...The one I bought is 4200gph at 150watts....NEXT!!!!
Electrical hazzard...Got a gfi and a voltmeter. I can also ground the pond if I so choose with a submersible grounding wire. no stray current...Never been a problem ever..8 yrs in the koi hobby!! Keep reaching!!!
Noise...are you just making sh*t up now??? Never heard my submersible pump ever!!
Flow and design options...I did mention I also have an external pump running!!! Same options you have my friend.
Cleaning and maintenance...It's not that much to vacuum and change a pad...really, A whole half hour a week!! What did you think it took...3 days?!?!
The pump and cord are visible...but considering I put them near my airstone..not so much. Lots of tiny bubbles hide things well....and an ivy plant draped over the exit pipe works wonders!!!

My submersible pumps pipe wont freeze or break...winter comes and I bring it indoors..duh!!
Your pipe freezes and breaks...empty pond..middle of winter..fish learn to walk and breathe air...or die!!!

Sorry buddy...#1 rule of fishkeeping is keep them wet. My system is more likely to keep it that way. Earthquake, ice ground shift..doesn't matter at all in my set up. Your setup=the end=dry pond in those situations!!

As far as being one of those people..If you mean someone who is well thought out and ready for any eventuality..then I am guilty. If you mean someone with 28 years of fishkeeping, and 8 year koi keeping experience...I am also guilty. If you mean someone who follows every trend and buys every new thing they tell him is PROPER..then..you got the wrong guy. Let me guess...you had an aquascapes pond when that was proper as well!!!

[KoiCop]

Bad move, Brutuscz. You should have taken the advice and stopped digging.

[Brutuscz]

Quote: Originally Posted by KoiCop Bad move, Brutuscz. You should have taken the advice and stopped digging.

I'll take my chances...facts are facts. My last system ran fine for years. my new system will continue to run fine for many more years. Anyone who can't accept that their way, is not the only way, has my sympathy. I mean...macerated poop...you gotta be kidding!!! At least let half of what you list make sense!! You may think I'm digging...but I see many other people shoveling some S**t of their own here.
I didn't mean to make this thread about me, my system or anything else...but it seems to have steered that way.

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by Brutuscz I didn't mean to make this thread about me, my system or anything else...

Oh, really? Yours was the first reply on Mickey's thread:

I use a surface skimmer and external pump of 5600gph. Also, a submersible, solids handling pump on the bottom (at a low spot) that handles 4200gph.

So now you're a self-confessed, unregenerate, in-pond poop-pumper and proud of it. Wowser.

[Seefdro Tvneik]

Curious?????

Brutuscz have you read the JR post on the "OTHER SITE" regarding a similar blog???? Good details I could not explain as well but should be understood..........

I have no doubt your system will work but you are pond-gambling just about every day......... One day, and it may literally take one day, your water could freak out. ONE DAY YOUR WATER COULD FREAK OUT, LITERALLY IN 24 HOURS....

When this happens do you have an emergency plan?????

[farne230]

Regarding bottom drains. I have two; one aerated and the other not. The drains are installed in concrete with a polyurea linear. After one year the only problem I have had is the aerated bottom drain cover has come off. IT threads on over a rubber diaphram, design improvement add more threads to cover. I had to dive into the pond multiple times and finally drain the pond within 1-1/2 feet deep to tighten the top on. So far it has held for the past week.

[Brutuscz]

Quote: Originally Posted by KoiCop Oh, really? Yours was the first reply on Mickey's thread: I use a surface skimmer and external pump of 5600gph. Also, a submersible, solids handling pump on the bottom (at a low spot) that handles 4200gph. So now you're a self-confessed, unregenerate, in-pond poop-pumper and proud of it. Wowser.

I replied because I know someone with a bottom drain that failed(or the plumbing failed). Thats what the thread is about. I mentioned I didn't want to install one because of this...that is all. I am an in-pond poop pumper..and proud of it. I just get irked when people think their system is the only way. Been in the fish keeping hobby for long enough to know better. More than one way to skin a cat!!!
..and throughout the whole thread I keep repeating..I think bottom drains are a great idea...just wont install one myself and feel confortable.

[mojo]

it's nice to see Mr Brutuzz fight hard. Bottom drain need extra chambers, similar to the vortex system. I do not have that, so let the expert see what they think, here is the comparison of all filter : ponddoc.com . i think Mr Brutuzz has an allied here.

[gregbickal]

Letting it go, I'll just stick to the topic...

Out of the 16 ponds that I have installed DIY bottom drains in over the last 8 years, none of them has had the bottom drain or pipe boot leak. That would be 30+ drains, and well over 100+ pipe boots. I even put drains in the bottom of the settling chambers, drain for a drain.

[dubtaco]

There are 2 kinds of koi keepers, those who have bottom drains and know the benefits and those that don't. It's kind of like those that have bakki showers and those that don't, ask their opinion and you will get a biased answer.

My name is Chris and I have a bottom drain.....

Yo Brutuscz...You still using DOS and 8-tracks?...change is good!

I have never seen a bottom drain that was properly installed leak. I have seen gate valves and ball valves go bad, no big deal just swap it out. I don't know why some people are so afraid to install a bottom drain, its not hard and is no different than putting a hole in the liner for a skimmer or TPR. Heck did you freak out when your home builder installed vents in your roof. Of course you didn't cus you know there is a right and wrong way to install it....