Chagoi's Role

[ppp]

As the so-called leader of the fish, particularly when it comes to feed-time, the chagoi's friendly and tame nature dictates the mood of the pond. When I started keeping koi, my dealer said that it was advisable to have a chagoi in the pond.

My koi are now considerably bigger since I started, and I'd like to know if a chagoi is still a necessity in the pond if all the other koi are bigger than, say 65cm. The mood is calmer when the koi are bigger and older. I currently have 23 females (including the chagoi) and 3 males in my pond.

Also, what happens if the pond members are of mixed sizes but are all female? Is a chagoi still "necessary"?

[MikeM]

? I don't think "necessary" is the right term. Any friendly koi accustomed to people being around will have a similar calming effect on the other fish. Chagoi are naturally less afraid. Perhaps too dumb to know better? Or, maybe more appropriate to compare to an easy-going big dog vis-a-vis one of the yippy in-bred little dog varieties? Ochiba and Soragoi are said to be similar in behavior, though some Chagoi afficionados think those varieties are not quite as tame from birth.

I assume you are wanting to replace the dull Chagoi with a bright gosanke type. You may find the pond as a whole actually looks better with the Chagoi providing a contrast that makes all the others look better.

[ppp]

Actually my real problem is that I've been advised that once my fish all cross 80cm, I should have no more than 15 koi in my pond. At the moment I have 26, but average 65cm. It looks like I'll need to whittle this down to 15 within the next 2 years or so. I love gosanke, especially kohaku which constitute almost half of my pond population. I'm just wondering if I really need to reserve a place for my gin rin chagoi..

[mitten]

13 kohaku, one showa, one utsuri, maybe?

Or, 13 sanke, one kigoi, one crow. Cool.

Or, all three steps.

I've had a pond full of shiro with one mekaburi kohak. and I've had a pond of yamabuki with one utsuri and one kohaku. You sure do look at the kohak a lot.

[dick benbow]

mickey good point. One of the "tricks" I saw breeders do was send a bag full of one color variety that a dealer ordered and then throw in a single contrasting one. They often got a call back to send another bag of that color variety. ( what i remember was a shiro utsuri in a bag of kohaku )

I have always felt that a koi pond should be balanced in color to have an effect. I too have gone thru stages of having more of one kind that I was enamoured of. It really does distract from each individual.

The comment about having a few simple solid colors in a pond with lots of busy gosanke patterns does give it some stability.

I think a blue, (asagi) and yellow koi (kigoi or yamabuki) are a must. A nice quiet ochiba doesn't detract.
your gosanke and shiro utsuri (7) a platinum, chagoi ( green), a goshiki
(kindai) and a member of the crow family (matsukawabake, haijiro , kumonryu) and then a pretty Gin Rin of your choice would be a good blend of colors. Depending on your opinion, the same way an eye goes to shiro utsuri in a bag of kohaku's, a long fin can have the same effect in a pond of standard wagoi or douitsu.

I used to be into my pond of big fish, uniform and impressive till i realized after many years of restraint that I missed the joy of seeing little fish grow and change. So I replace a few that don't turn out each year with something new to keep my interest. The old timers are a challenge to keep fit and at peak for an extended time, but that is a challenge and satisfaction in itself.

[ppp]

The tastes in the West and over here in the East are slightly different. In the West, many hobbyists like gin rins, longfins, doitsus and solid colour ogons. These are not really so popular here although one can find asagis, shusuis and yamabukis in many ponds. In particular, longfins are largely frowned upon here - my dealer tells me that if a Japanese breeder sees a longfin in my pond, he'll likely break down and cry! No offence intended for longfin fans and owners...

For me personally, my 26 koi now comprise 12 kohakus (including 2 males), 1 ginrin tancho kohaku, 5 showas (including 1 male), 1 ginrin showa, 1 sanke, 2 shiro utsuris, 1 hi utsuri, 1 yamabuki ogon, 1 beni kikokuryu and......1 ginrin chagoi. The beni kikokuryu has a bluish silver base and is my only doitsu koi. Really slow grower though.

I'm thinking if I remove the chagoi and the 3 males, that would leave me with 22 koi. The balance 7 fish to be whittled down can be the less performing gosankes over the next 2 years.

[MikeM]

I understand your problem. My personal limit is 16 koi. But, I've got 20 because I could not pass up raising 5 tosai this year. It gets to be a bit perverse when I realize I'm hoping a tosai will prove to be male so I won't have regrets sending it to a new home... and at the same time wondering if the Shiro that looked male when I got it might be female since the yellow tones have gradually become more white. If my koikeeping was rational, I'd move along my two worse koi. But they are old friends, so that cannot be done. Very difficult situation we koikeepers put ourselves in.

[ppp]

Yes Mike, we've got problems, don't we? I actually feel my pond can take more than 15 big fish (meaning 80+ cm) as my pond is 100 tonnes, inclusive of a 20 tonne filter, and I'll be further upgrading the filtration system tomorrow onwards. Will be adding a heavy duty protein skimmer, micro bubble diffusers and an oxygen generator to the existing bakki shower and mechanical/bio filter. Perhaps I can keep 20 fish? Do you think 25 is overcrowding if my fish are over 80cm?

[MikeM]

ppp: I do not have personal experience on this. My goal is similar to yours... eventually to have a pond of 80cm koi, but I am taking my time to get there. I can only share what I have read and observed when talking about the level of the hobby you are wanting to reach.

I believe 100 tons is approximately 26,000 US gallons. If that is correct, the standard often given is 1,000 gallons per female koi in a well-filtered system that turns over once per hour with equivalent of 5% to 10% daily water change/in-flow. (Which comes to one-third or more water change per week.) I cannot vouch for that from personal experience. It is really a question of whether the filter system, feeding rate, water characteristics, etc. come together to give high quality water conditions. I believe climate is important, also. In warmer climates I believe a bit more space is needed than in cool climates. This is because the period of intense bio-activity is longer, leading IMO to more risk of straining a system, having a build-up of hormones and toxins, and lower oxygenation. If the koi are to grow over 80cm, I'm speculating that 1,250 per female is a comfortable stocking rate in warm climates. A friend of mine is getting excellent growth, skin quality, etc. at a stocking rate of about 1,400 gallons (5+ tons) per koi in a warm climate setting with excellent filtration, fresh water, etc. His koi include an approx. 35" Chagoi.

So.... getting back to your question, my guess is that you would be fine at 20 koi in 26,000 gallons if the filtration is excellent and you are performing regular, frequent water changes or have a constant in-flow of about 1,500 gallons or more per day of fresh water (conditioned in whatever manner is needed for your source water).

But, I am sure that having only 15 koi in 26,000 gallons would result in even better water conditions for maintaining the beauty of your koi. I think you have been given advice as to what that person thinks would be "perfect". Opinions are going to differ. And the most important question is whether you get the results you are seeking. Enjoy! Nothing like a 80+cm koi to get the "wow" factor.

[ppp]

Thanks for your input, Mike. I guess the final decision will rest with me. The decision will obviously be much harder if all my koi perform to dream level expectations, but then..they seldom do, do they?

It's quite unlikely that I will further enlarge my pond as it will eat into my garden area (whatever's left of it now anyway!) and the missus will surely scream! That's the reason why I'm doing everything possible to improve the filtration and aeration system for my pond, as this increases the member capacity of the pond.