Please look someone and tell me if this will work, I need help asap!!

[lilkoi]

I tried to add the pictures to here but i cant get it to work. .So I put them at photobucket.com and my username is lilkoisphotos and the password is 1hailey. When you look in there , there is going to be a picture that I edited. It will have different colored marks on it so I can explain to you all how my pond is and works so maybe you all can tell me if I need to add more to it or not....I colored it to make it easier for you to understand......picture is of my pond standing on a ladder...my area in which i live does not permit me to put in bottom drains..why? because every shovel of dirt you take out after 3 1/2 feet it quickly fills with water. and should i want to drain my pond from time to time i couldn't because the liner lifts from under, water fills in hole that liner sits in...when full it keep liner tight to the walls of the hole i dug.



*Ok the orange at the top of the picture is my boi waterfall.There is an arrow that ponits in which direction the water travels in. It is im portant the way it flows cause it makes a whirlpool action in the pond(koi love to try and swim up stream makes for stronger and healthier fish I was told.

*The area between each green line is 5 feet 6 inches deep.

* The area between each blue line is 33 inches deep. ( 2 feet 9 inches)

* The area between the two blue line is a deep slope ranging from 33 inches deep to 5 feet 6 inches deep.

*Then you will find three black arrows in the picture, starting with the first black arrow closest to the top of the picture(near the orange waterfall). That area is 126 inches across. (10 feet 5 inches)

*Moving down to the next arrow that one is 99 inches across.( 8 feet 3 inches)

*The last arrow farthest away from the orange, that area is 106 inches across. ( 8 feet 10 inches)

* There is no another arrow that goes across length wise, but that area is 106 inches long ( 8 feet 10 inches)

* keep in mind that the huge rocks are sat on top the liner so there is a little extra water room besides the actual gallons that would be calculated by the measurements.

* Now there are two 110 gallon tubs off to the side water is being pumped from the middle of the deep area ( between the green lines) up it then has to pass through two very large converted sand filters these are the hayward type. They have had all the sand removed from them and were filled with sinking media. It then splits off the last tank and goes one of two ways. One way it goes to the settling chambers (110 gallon tubs). There is a picture of where and how it comes in the first tub. If you looked you would have seen that it is diverted in to the tub in a three way pvc pipe. That is to slow down the water a bit so stuff has time to settle. It then has to pass through Japanese mat type material before it can pass through to the next tub. Where it again has to pass through more Japanese mats. before it can come out.

* The white line from the last tub shows the piping that comes out and how it directed around the pond. It spills out from three exits around the pond to make a whirlpool action.

* The other way the water flows after the T from the sand filters is to a biowaterfall it is the Little Giant Biowaterfall F5000. It was made with a spinning vortex system that helps to make another settling chamber before it is pushed up through two 3 inch filter material, And then up through several pounds of lava rock.Then makes its way back into the pond.

* All of the settling tanks are easy back flushed as well as the converted sand filters and the waterfall. They all have a bottom drain which I WILL BE FLUSHING OUT EVERY TWO DAYS!!!

* I am going to add some plants in the insides if the 110 gallon tubs to hopefully help more beneficially to my pond and wet kids.

* I was also thinking of adding 2 small baki showers That will take clean water from the top of the pond on either side and pass through a three layer system.


Hopefully you all see my plans and hopefully it works, any suggestions would greatly be appreciated. I Want to get all my friends out of the temporary pool thats in the basement. They are all well and better now after a scary outbreak of the SAP. I lost so many good friends to the SAP. Thats why i decided to upgrade and make their home better for them. I will also add some great pics of them for anyone who wants to see them. They are all from japan except a few mud ones my daughter wanted from a couple koi shows.

Again thanks for taking your time to read sorry so long but hopefully someone will come to my rescue if i need more to ensure them a longer happier life. -joI

[jnorth]

Hi Lilkoi, Its a small world it seems. My family has owned a house on Lake Coventry since my great grandfather built it in 1921. I never would have thought I'd run across someone from Coventry on the web unless they were related to me. Anyway to make it easier for you (and the people on the board) I've attached your pics.

[lilkoi]

Thats strange didnt think i would meet anyone from here that shares my passion.... I'm from mass but I have lived here for 2 1/2 years now. Thank you for posting those pics for me...(maybe you can teach this old dog some tricks...lol) So did you look at what I have going on??Or anyone else?? Is It good or bad? Do I need to add more?? If so what?? I can take it if you think I went about this wrong...I just wanna make sure that they are gonna be happier...And if your ever around and wanna just peep at my kids let me know...I love to share their beauty with everyone..thanks so much for taking your time here!!!! -jo

[jnorth]

It looks ok to me although the pond might be a little shallow for your winters. I'm sure some of the better pond builders will chime in eventually. Give them some time . As for uploading the photos you just need to make sure they are small enough. The biggest they can be is like 1000x1000 pixels. Yours were just over that so I made them a tad smaller so they would upload.

[mitten]

LilKoi Dearie,

I don't see the sand filters, but I may be dense. Using them as mechanical filters, and backflushing them daily, would allow you to use your tubs as fluid bed bio filters, the waterfall will not be enough. I don't see a need for piping to direct the outflow to three seperate points, just dump it in. Waterfall and tub outflow will give you your whirlpool effect.

Improvements could include a future compromise bottom drain through the liner midway down, sucking the bottom and feeding passive mechanical filtration by gravity. Probably as you see more ponds you will find more elegant solutions for laying out and disguising filter components.

The math on gallonage may be done by someone here, but being able to meter it for exact gallonage would be helpful. Consider now options to further reduce the number of fish to be kept in your pond allowing improved conditions for those you keep.

[lilkoi]

My fish have wintered over for two years in this pond never lost any after the danger of spring sickness......the only reason i have upgraded is because I tried to do a nice favor and fish sit for 16 other fish for a friend (koi of course whom i quarantined before adding) my pond was happy and running beyond perfect till i added more then my pond could handle) now that i know if i do ever choose to want more and not necessarily want to give any of them away I need to improve on water quality for a larger volume of koi....yes you all did not see the sand filters they came in after i took the pictures and added this post to here...but rest assure i do have them!!! not sure if you all get my point on the bottom drain theory but its to wet here when i remove water the liner rises do to the ground under the liner fills with water when i want to do a full cleaning i like to drain the pond(in the spring) and do a over perfect job cleaning any stuff left in there...so i have to have bottom drains that flow from a pipe down the inside liner wall and go to the spots where one should be...when i finish my new house i will be living there forever and plan to have a cement and spray on liner but now i live here and have a liner.....i thought maybe if i have more then enough bio and mechanical filtrations (as in more then any normal over the top koi hobbiest has then my water should almost be clean enough to drink(not that i would) but you get the point...so this is why i ask you all your opinions about my pond....i do however intend to bring them all in from now on during the winter means to me that i get to spend more time with them....i have a system in my house that blows me away my friend raises koi and sells them when he gets new ones he wants to raise....in a matter of four years they are huge...and he built that system he uses for me for indoor....outdoors he tells me to enlist in other koi pond (outside pond) people to see if what i have is best he only keeps his inside.....his koi are so beautiful and big but no fat just somewhat lean and very muscular fish...i just wanna make sure my are just as nice as his...so again i will keep adding pics on what is being done any and all even if its bad opinions are very helpful to me....i love them greatly and here in ct there are no koi clubs i did find one in mass not sure how to go abouts joining it but i will be tempting that soon too.....till i here from you all may your days be sparkling and safe...and may your koi smile upon you for all you do for them from your hearts!!!!!

[mitten]

Quote: Originally Posted by lilkoi because every shovel of dirt you take out after 3 1/2 feet it quickly fills with water. and should i want to drain my pond from time to time i couldn't because the liner lifts from under, water fills in hole that liner sits in...when full it keep liner tight to the walls of the hole i dug.

Lil Koi Dearie-

When I read, I read for comprehension, slowly, absorbing details and sometimes moving my lips. I understood why you didn't WISH TO put in bottom drains...the reason I suggested a compromise... penetrating the liner above your ground water and extending down from there inside the pond to where it could act as a suction drain. This is a compromise. It will work better than a pump in the bottom. (Are your lips moving?)

Quote: Originally Posted by lilkoi *The area between each green line is 5 feet 6 inches deep. * The area between each blue line is 33 inches deep. ( 2 feet 9 inches) * The area between the two blue line is a deep slope ranging from 33 inches deep to 5 feet 6 inches deep.

The depth of 5'6 should be adequate for the survival of your koi through winter, like you said. Got it. Bringing them in for the winter may help them thrive but will have it's own set of drawbacks. Have fun.

Quote: Originally Posted by lilkoi * Now there are two 110 gallon tubs off to the side water is being pumped from the middle of the deep area ( between the green lines) up it then has to pass through two very large converted sand filters these are the hayward type. They have had all the sand removed from them and were filled with sinking media. It then splits off the last tank and goes one of two ways. One way it goes to the settling chambers (110 gallon tubs). There is a picture of where and how it comes in the first tub. If you looked you would have seen that it is diverted in to the tub in a three way pvc pipe. That is to slow down the water a bit so stuff has time to settle. It then has to pass through Japanese mat type material before it can pass through to the next tub. Where it again has to pass through more Japanese mats. before it can come out.

Sheesh! This is inelegant, ineffective, inside out and backwards. I said something a bit more positive in my post that you didn't read.

Quote: Originally Posted by lilkoi * The white line from the last tub shows the piping that comes out and how it directed around the pond. It spills out from three exits around the pond to make a whirlpool action.

Completely unneccessary and robs the pumps volume for misapplied velocity.

Quote: Originally Posted by lilkoi * The other way the water flows after the T from the sand filters is to a biowaterfall it is the Little Giant Biowaterfall F5000. It was made with a spinning vortex system that helps to make another settling chamber before it is pushed up through two 3 inch filter material, And then up through several pounds of lava rock.Then makes its way back into the pond.

There is nowhere near enough bio filtration in this falls. See my first post for positive comments.

Quote: Originally Posted by lilkoi * All of the settling tanks are easy back flushed as well as the converted sand filters and the waterfall. They all have a bottom drain which I WILL BE FLUSHING OUT EVERY TWO DAYS!!!

There must be a good reason, like starting work at 530am, for not doing this EVERY day, like me.

Quote: Originally Posted by lilkoi * I am going to add some plants in the insides if the 110 gallon tubs to hopefully help more beneficially to my pond and wet kids.

Your plant ideas will destroy the possiblity of using these tubs to actually filter your water.

Quote: Originally Posted by lilkoi * I was also thinking of adding 2 small baki showers That will take clean water from the top of the pond on either side and pass through a three layer system.

Three good, four better. Old convention was more than two feet of media height to get the benefits of degassing. You want as much flow through this as you can get, generally.

Quote: Originally Posted by lilkoi -joI

Is this your name? Good luck with your upgrades.

[jnorth]

Unlike Mickey I apparently read too fast and saw the 33" part and missed the 5' part. Whoops

[lilkoi]

I really appreciate you two giving me feedbacks...I'm sorry I didn't quite understand what you meant about adding the drain half way.....I do now get...So you think I should let it be gravity fed?? where should it go first?? What else should I do if the bio waterfall isn't big enough??? How many baki systems should I add??? how far should thee space be between the layers of media that make up the baki system??? Do you all have pictures of your outer works( like filters and baki's, pond, and anything else maybe you have going on your ponds....I'de love to see how yours look) you two seem to know alot and I feel as though maybe I can learn alot from either one of you!!!! Oh and my name is Jo,... no I ....don't know how that got there...didnt even see it to tell you the trueth....I was supposed to be a boy mom didn't have a girl name picked out so she named me Jo...I was supposed to be joey!! lol....again I would love to see what your ponds look like and how they work!!! And thanks for the tip mitten on not putting in plants, and adding the drain, those I will fix now!!! any others things I should change??? or add....I got the time and money to upgrade as of right now so I would like to get to it!!! what is wrong with bringing them in?? I will take pictures today of the inside system maybe you can tell me what you think on that?? It keeps my amonia levels at almost 0...test shows a lil dark in the yellow....what test kits do you all use?? I got the master kit from online all the basics plus a salt test....I tend to keep adding salt to keep pond at almost 2 percent...is this bad or good...I know I ask alot but I just wanna learn...I am always going to the shows and koi dealers...I ask them stuff too but I seem to not get any feedback from them....again thank you, thank you, thank you! I feel very lucky that you two stepped in and helped me!!! Thanks a bunch -Jo

[mitten]

LilKoiJo Dearie-

I can't answer all of your questions! Typing is hard!

Here's some help...Look up there for the "search" button. It's below the main picture and the advertising banner. It will help you find *any* answer. There is a whole section, a forum of its own on Bito, that JNorth set up called "Best of Bito" where he has put the most inspirational and educational threads.

Use these resources to get an understanding of "gravity fed." It is the backbone of effective koi pond filtration. One requirement is that the pond and all filter containers, more elegantly called chambers, share the same water level until the flow reaches the pump, when the water can be raised by pumping through a sand filter, or to the top of a shower filter, falling back into the pond.

When fish are brought in for the winter they can be a handful, needing great filtration aiming at zeros on your tests, efficient heating, frequent water changes, netting, lighting and moderate to low feeding. Having that much water inside can add moisture problems to your house or garage or barn.

Dealers use salt to cover their butts, we don't need to as a regular practice and should not.

Maybe after reading a bit of the archived great discussions you will have questions that can be grouped together covering single topics. Threads will wander but it is nice to start out in one place.

Welcome, Jo.