Air-domes make kois couch potatoes

[Erns]

I spend a lot of time watching my koi. I even go check them out at night with a flashlight to see what they are up to!
My pond is only 7.5 feet wide but 23 feet long. I've got two aerated bottom drains and my koi swim (in schooling behaviour) the lenght of the pond, through the bubbles with no indication that it bothers them at all. Now I have a different theory on this.....

Most of my koi was bought as 1 or two year old and I've raised them in my pond. So as far as they are concerned my pond with lots of current, bubbles and high turnover is all they know. I think if i'm going to buy a big, say 4 year old, which have been raised in the quite waters of a mudpond I might see a difference in behaviour. This bigger koi will not school with the group to feel safe like the little ones does so this koi might show the behaviour which have been discribed in this thread. i'm going to buy some bigger fish in October and when I put them into my pond I'll be able to give feedback on this issue.

I have plenty of aeration in my filtration system so I don't really need the added 'air' from the bottom drains, but because of the shape of my pond and being 8 feet deep I want to increase the 'surface' area and therfore need the current from the bottomdrain airdomes. I also find that there is absolutly no buildup of waste on the bottom as long as the airdomes are on. In winter I turn them off at night and it the morning there will be quite a bit of waste on the floor in the area the fish were 'sleeping'. so for me it's more about optimising my pond and water enviroment than aerating.

[Eugeneg]

Most of my koi was bought as 1 or two year old and I've raised them in my pond. So as far as they are concerned my pond with lots of current, bubbles and high turnover is all they know. I think if i'm going to buy a big, say 4 year old, which have been raised in the quite waters of a mudpond I might see a difference in behaviour. This bigger koi will not school with the group to feel safe like the little ones does so this koi might show the behaviour which have been discribed in this thread. i'm going to buy some bigger fish in October and when I put them into my pond I'll be able to give feedback on this issue.

The ideal for raising young koi is that they do not experience a winter the first 2 years . As October arrives all my fish spend a lot of time going to one area of the mud pond where warmer water comes in from the greenhouse and they are quite happy to go in to an indoor pond where the water temperature is a little warmer . Yet they are happiest in the mud pond during the summer rather than a very unatural pond like yours . In observing my fish today half were stirring up the mud and the others were in some thick slimy weeds . I think that given the choice they would prefer to be in a nice muddy river with
moderate temperatures the year round . We look down at beginners with their lack of knowledge that usually kill their fish but we have to ask ourselves if our ponds are the answer . Most koi would not think so
Regards
Eugene

[Erns]

The ideal for raising young koi is that they do not experience a winter the first 2 years . As October arrives all my fish spend a lot of time going to one area of the mud pond where warmer water comes in from the greenhouse and they are quite happy to go in to an indoor pond where the water temperature is a little warmer . Yet they are happiest in the mud pond during the summer rather than a very unatural pond like yours . In observing my fish today half were stirring up the mud and the others were in some thick slimy weeds . I think that given the choice they would prefer to be in a nice muddy river with
moderate temperatures the year round . We look down at beginners with their lack of knowledge that usually kill their fish but we have to ask ourselves if our ponds are the answer . Most koi would not think so
Regards
Eugene[/quote]

this might be a bit off the topic...but what the hec...

Well, our winter is not really winter when I think about Canada. We are now past the coldest time of the year and although I don't heat at all my water temp did not drop below 60 degrees (16 celcuis) so I think in Japanese terms my koi has never really had a winter.

You raise a question that I notice is in the news quite a bit in the US at the moment. The story on the whale sharks that died in the Georgia aquarium... Is any animal really suppose to be kept in captivity? On the other side of the question, will koi as we know and enjoy them survive in a wild lake with natural predators. I think not. Koi as we know them were developed as ornamental fish suppose to be kept in koi ponds with optimal conditions. Sure a mudpond will give you the best results, but can and will they live a good life in a well maintained, properly designed and stocked pond, I think yes. but then we have been down this mudpond discussion as well...

[moikoi]

but if i built another pond i would install airdomes,that way least i have an option to turn it on or off. my pond is a pear shape 29' ft in length.

the top fish is at 3.5 ft deep.the two fish on the bottom is at 7 ft deep. the BD is at 8.5 ft deep.

[moikoi]

Quote: Originally Posted by hwong Apologies, for lack of a more appropriate title…. He and a few others in the industry also adviced against fitting an air-dome/ air-ring on top of the bottom drains that are usually at the centre locations of the pond. This they say defeats the purpose of having a long pond. What is your take on this?

hwong
Wellll....since you brought up the subject. i have heard from a few hobbyist saying that an air dome is just a gimmick. i better shut up now since i'm just a newbie.

[dick benbow]

air domes are not gimmicks. When properly used and placed can really sweep a pond clean of wastes for immediate disposal. along the history of koi keeping and design a lot of focus has been to design and keep our ponds free of dead areas/first it was the vortex, then BB,the answer, then statisc k-1.....but all along the emphasis was getting rid of wastes that foul. I think the air dome does that.

to me the question is: do the koi besides health benefits, enjoy this type of living. is it healthy for them both physically and mentally.

I remember as a youth fishing for smallmouth bass in rivers every once in a while hooking a river carp and how big and strong they were. And how tired I was when done wading at the end of the day.

this type of set up provides koi a more natural environment./ If designed correctly could do just as good a job for keeping all areas clean with rounded and sloped corners.

for some this example will be far fetched, and i accept that...but you can have folks living in a city, with air filters and air conditioners and de humidifiers, all contribute to keeping folks comfortable but do these apparatuses contribute the same as if they were breathing the clean renewed air in the country. Which one is healthier? Which one would make you happier.....before you start singing the green acres theme song......I think there is some value there that we tend to forget. Is a dog happier in a kennel or running free? I think the japanese who are used to crowded cities really enjoy the green quiet of their gardens....for a reason...(end of speech-soap box properly stored....)

[JasPR]

I agree with what Eugene said. And I think airdomes are a great thing, but also a trade off. They increase oxygen and blow off undesirable gases. And they mix water layers and the act as a synergistic partner to drain action as Dick just pointed out. This is all great for a modern colsed system.

But then there are the koi themselves. They have a behavior pattern and 'life style' that came long before the closed backyard system-- like 10,000 years before. Carp are not constant swimmers, like marine schooling species or palagics. They are creatures of the mud and they are creatures that rest on and off during the day and night. Indeed some of the British ponds of the 1990's were build like vortex units- deep and with very sloped bottoms and very active currents due to TPRs and roiling air domes. Not too 'relaxing' for adult koi? And noisy from an underwater point of view.

I think there needs to be a happy medium that caters to both the behavior of teh captive fish and the function of the closed system. Maybe ' everything in moderation' is the right mission statement here? JR

[Erns]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR I agree with what Eugene said. And I think airdomes are a great thing, but also a trade off. They increase oxygen and blow off undesirable gases. And they mix water layers and the act as a synergistic partner to drain action as Dick just pointed out. This is all great for a modern colsed system. But then there are the koi themselves. They have a behavior pattern and 'life style' that came long before the closed backyard system-- like 10,000 years before. Carp are not constant swimmers, like marine schooling species or palagics. They are creatures of the mud and they are creatures that rest on and off during the day and night. Indeed some of the British ponds of the 1990's were build like vortex units- deep and with very sloped bottoms and very active currents due to TPRs and roiling air domes. Not too 'relaxing' for adult koi? And noisy from an underwater point of view. I think there needs to be a happy medium that caters to both the behavior of teh captive fish and the function of the closed system. Maybe ' everything in moderation' is the right mission statement here? JR

The airpump to my airdomes runs on a timer and go on and off at intervals during the day and they stay off during the night. As I said before, my turnover is high enough for mixing water and I've got plenty of air in my K1, bakki shower, trickle tower and waterfall. So my airdomes are actually part of my mechanical filtration. Is this perhaps the happy medium?

[moikoi]

do most japanese hobbyist install airdomes in their pond?

[MikeM]

Interesting that you mention the noise factor, JR. I recall a conversation with the EA folks at KoiAmerica 2005 about that. They were looking into ideas that would allow koi to have a quiet pond and still get the cleanliness of using diffusers. ...Still waiting for the better approach.