Air-domes make kois couch potatoes

[hwong]

Apologies, for lack of a more appropriate title….

General consensus is that for a koi to develop a good muscular body, it must have the space to swim unimpeded; hence the preference for a long pond .. A leading breeder recommends 45 feet!

He and a few others in the industry also adviced against fitting an air-dome/ air-ring on top of the bottom drains that are usually at the centre locations of the pond. This they say defeats the purpose of having a long pond.
They say that the airdomes will encourage the kois in huddling around the aridomes and the kois will swim around the airdome and not swim freely the length of the pond as they should. They adviced that the pond should be free from any obstruction and the airlines should be fitted to the sides. We do not need to worry about solids as the sloped floor and the constant water intake will draw the solids into the bottom drain.

What is your take on this?

[Flounder]

Opinions varies, to each his own. Whatever the breeder says goes? You'll have to make your own judgement on what you need.

As for me I've seen aerated bd in action and I'll keep mine.

[ppp]

I think it also depends on the width of the pond. I have air-rings fitted over 2 of my 5 BDs and my koi don't seem to have a problem doing their daily "laps". But my pond's width is about 15 feet, so they can swim on either side of the air-rings. If the width of your pond is 8 feet or less, it might be different, I don't know.

[l113892]

My pond width is 9 feet and I don't observe any different swimming behavior with the air domes on or off. Also, it doesn't matter that your bottom is slopped, you still need the air domes- I'm keeping mine. I'd love to have 45 feet in length though.

[gregbickal]

My pond is 45 by 25. I just added air domes this year. It will take me some time to notice if their swimming patterns have shifted.

[KoiCop]

Leading breeder, huh?

I recently read another leading breeder say if you can see your koi you haven't got enough air in the pond. Go figure.

I'm not a leading breeder, but I'm going with lots of air. Right now we're running 200 lpm on a 6K pond and might add some more.

[s2chang]

Air can be anywhere in the pond, in the filter and so on ...

Air in the BD dome has several advantage other than aeriate the water. (a) sweeping current to assist waste to drain, (b) push slime to the pond's edge. There, with the spinning current, the skimmer'action is much more effective.

My pond has air domes and no such koi behavior observed. Maybe your koi think the dome is their campfire? stevec

[MikeM]

I am sure the longer the pond, the better. I've read that 8-10 times the desired length is the desired minimum length. (i.e., if your goal is 36" koi, then a length of 24'-30' is the desired minimum length for the koi to have exercise room.) I've never heard of a maximum desirable length.

I have noticed that my koi tend to swim more when the aeration is off. However, I seldom turn it off. So, I think of the extra swimming as a nervous reaction to the change in their normal environment.

[Erns]

Quote: Originally Posted by hwong Apologies, for lack of a more appropriate title…. General consensus is that for a koi to develop a good muscular body, it must have the space to swim unimpeded; hence the preference for a long pond .. A leading breeder recommends 45 feet! He and a few others in the industry also adviced against fitting an air-dome/ air-ring on top of the bottom drains that are usually at the centre locations of the pond. This they say defeats the purpose of having a long pond. They say that the airdomes will encourage the kois in huddling around the aridomes and the kois will swim around the airdome and not swim freely the length of the pond as they should. They adviced that the pond should be free from any obstruction and the airlines should be fitted to the sides. We do not need to worry about solids as the sloped floor and the constant water intake will draw the solids into the bottom drain. What is your take on this?

I think if we have to think big and more about the global advancement of the hobby we might want to consider keeping statements like this to ourselves. No offence hwong!
How many of the ave. koi keepers out there (who actually keep a lot of the breeders going by buying commercial grade koi) can actually afford to have a 45 feet long pond or something that might be a tourist attraction in the line of some of the tanks at Sea World.

I see a lot of threads on this forum (and I really enjoy them!!) about pushing the boundries and growing and keeping jumbo koi. For us purists that is the ulitmate challenge. But this chalenge is not for everybody as they might not have the space nor the resources for such a big operation. It's hard and expensive to buy the right stock and grow them to +80cm and then maintain them.

I good local breeder and dealer told me this year, after seeing my system, that if this is what it takes to keep koi he might as well go out of bussiness. At first I was offended but then I saw deeper into what he was saying. When looking at some of the systems being discussed on this forum (I'm yet to see them as there was very little response to my thread called 'show us your pond) mine is actully a very simple and small operation at 35ton.

Should we as experienced(well sort of ) keepers not be focusing and doing a few more threads on how to keep koi succesfully in ponds of 30ton or less and giving tips on how to make the most of our hobby rather than discussing these astronomical figures?? Will this not promote the hobby a bit more effectively or am I way off target here??

I know we have written about this before and this is the forum where the top dogs hang out and if you can't keep up you might not want to be here, but i'm am thinking to much like a teacher here? Don't worry I've got skin thikker than a rhino!

[hwong]

Thank you all for your comments and opinions.

I posted this to solicit healthy discussion and to hear from members’ learned opinions as this issue has been debated by some hobbyists in our neck of the woods.
It is not about breeder worshipping nor are their words the gospel truth. We do not take their advice wholesale as their parameters are different from ours.

The purpose is also not about bragging or showing off or that only big matter.

In this hobby, no matter how small a pond, it is a major outlay for many and inspite of having followed advice from the experts or just friends who are in the hobby, mistakes are often made and many have just given up the hobby.

While this thread may not be relevant to those who have no interest in having big ponds or aspire to grow big kois, there are many who do and may want to know more before they plonk down their hard earned money to go further in their much loved hobby. Many of us here have threaded “carefully and started with a small ornamental garden pond but would never have progressed further without the comfort of good advice. And as said many times, no one design is the right one for all and that is the purpose of having this board.

I hope we can get back to the issue at hand and have a good discussion here.

The issue is not about having enuf air but the placement of the airdomes that creates the air column and the effect on kois’ swimming pattern in a pond that’s long.

I have attached a drawing of 2 scenarios to better illustrate my point..

Thank you.

ERns,
(I'm yet to see them as there was very little response to my thread called 'show us your pond) mine is actually a very simple and small operation at 35ton.


For those who aspire to grow big(relative) kois in moderately sized ponds, there are threads here … search post by dtbh.
I only know of one other Hobbyist who has managed to achieve Jumbo kois in a 16 ton pond


MIKE M

I have noticed that my koi tend to swim more when the aeration is off. However, I seldom turn it off. So, I think of the extra swimming as a nervous reaction to the change in their normal environment.

Mike, going by that, you are saying that your kois do swim the length of the pond despite having aiirdomes in the center position..

S2Chang

My pond has air domes and no such koi behavior observed. Maybe your koi think the dome is their campfire?

Steve, I have observed this huddling behaviour in a few ponds.

KoiCop
Leading breeder, huh? I'm not a leading breeder, but I'm going with lots of air. Right now we're running 200 lpm on a 6K pond and might add some more.

Don, Its not about having enuf air but position of the air and its effect of swimming behaviour. Is your pond rectangular or square? Appreciate observations of your kois' swimming pattern.


Gregbickal
My pond is 45 by 25. I just added air domes this year. It will take me some time to notice if their swimming patterns have shifted.

It will be good to observe and let us know.

113892 Mike
My pond width is 9 feet and I don't observe any different swimming behavior with the air domes on or off.

PPP
my koi don't seem to have a problem doing their daily "laps". But my pond's width is about 15 feet, so they can swim on either side of the air-rings. If the width of your pond is 8 feet or less, it might be different, I don't know.

Mike, PPP, So far the huddling phenomenon is observed in 3 ponds: 10 ft X 23Ft, 8ftX 28 ft and 11ft X28 ft. In all 3 ponds, the kois will start to swim the length of the pond when they have overcome the initial jolt when the airdomes are switch off.

Flounder
Whatever the breeder says goes?

No, and that’s exactly why I am soliciting a discussion.