Is this a FUTURE koi?

[ppp]

This is a good fish NOW. But will it be a good fish in the FUTURE? I'm not so sure.......Would appreciate your comments. Not all kois which win prizes at smaller sizes turn out great eventually. Anyway, details are - female, oyagoi Panda, 46cm at 2 years old (aki sansai).

[JasPR]

good show fish for the present. very finished and a nice pattern, ideal for that age and size in a show competition. Limited future however. IMHO. JR

[ppp]

JR,

That's my concern, especially after what I've learnt from you in my last thread. The body structure does not suggest a very big fish, does it? Kind of bought it impulsively because I needed a good Shiro in my pond. Its relatively small size is because of the hectic show circuit it was in, with concentration on finishing colours and pattern rather than growth.

People tell me it is preferable that show koi revert to tategoi state after the show, ie sumi should start going down and shiroji turns more yellow. Is it a fact that koi cannot remain finished for a continuous number of years?

[JasPR]

PPP, not to try and be cute or duck the question, but each fish does have a personal journey of improvement, finish and then decline. Male fish are know to move through these stages of life quicker and earlier than females. That is why male fish win most of the smaller size awards at shows. This is not surprising because they also reach sexual maturity quicker and hormones ultimately dictate finished skin in a koi.
But even within the female ranks some fish finish soon than others. and some females can hold their looks much longer than others. I'd say a typical time line for a female from juvenile to finished adult is 6 years. And ten years ago, a fish would begin to decline at about the 5- 6 year mark. Today you can see many fish that hold their looks to ages 10- 12 with very little decline. That is a lot of years of enjoyment from one fish! A lot of this depends on variety of course and within that context, ginrin, matallics and doitsu peak the earliest and decline the quickest.
I guess in the end, every koi has to be looked at as a 'cut flower' or an 'opened bottle of fine wine'?
JR

[ppp]

Thanks, JR. Btw, I forgot to mention the koi is female, but I've edited my original post now. But your points are valid and noted with thanks.

[JasPR]

Really? female uh? I'm a little surprised. But then again, always humbled by koi. They have a way of doing that---


The journey of sexing koi-

*Beginner- clueless and could care less

*The intermediate keeper- only female will due, not exactly sure why but that is what the advanced guys recommend so, when in Rome-----

* The advanced keeper- ONLY females will do and only of gosanke variety. Elitism 'can creep in here--. But everything is known about sexing koi from tell tale signs in the skin, to the pimples to the fins, to the belly,to color finish and characteristics of shiroji, to the vent. There is a belief that they, or their dealer certainly, can sex even 'eggs' perfectly. The confidence is intoxicating---

* the humbled koi keeper- gosanke are honored for what they are- the creme de la creme. But old varieties are also amazing in their own right. Size is nice but the 'full package' of shape, color characteristics, quality and pattern is better.
As for sexing koi, it is an educated guess in juvenile fish, a detective exercise really. A collection of pieces of evidence that weight the decision in one direction or another. And because they are living things, variation in sexual maturation is highly variable. Some males are obvious and some females are obvious and then the gradations towards androgynous fill the middle until sexual maturity.
The advanced keeper who was an expert is once again a student-- A 'beginner' all over again, only this time, with a significant amount of experience and knowledge.

JR

[ppp]

JR,

I wasn't aware that you thought it was male from the outset. My apologies for forgetting to state it in my original post. Nevertheless, I think your first reply will still be valid, ya? Body not conducive for 80+cm and as a female, probably finished a little too early. I'm toying with the idea of throwing it into the mud pond. I think its sumi will all but disappear if I do that. Then I can start concentrating on growing it for the time being, and finish it again a few years down the road.

[aquitori]

When hobbyist are considering a potential purchase, they must judge the finish of the fish they want to buy. The Shiro posted is clearly male, from the skin tone on the head to the large pecs and the finish of the sumi. At Sansai and female the Shiro's head should be a cream color. The sumi finish if female should be at around 40-50%, the sumi on the fish posted is at 80-90%. Like JR stated males still have a future, but not as bright as females.

[ppp]

My dealer just sexed the fish again on Monday and confirmed it was female. Hope it wasn't a sexing mistake! I'm not sure if the rigours of the show circuit caused the head colour. This fish took 2nd prize 50BU in this year's AJKS. You can also see it on the Omosako website.

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by ppp My dealer just sexed the fish again on Monday and confirmed it was female. I'm not sure if the rigours of the show circuit caused the head colour. This fish took 2nd prize 50BU in this year's AJKS. You can also see it on the Omosako website.

Okay, well I am not goin to dispute what the dealer has confirmed. But know Omosako Shiros they do have a tendency to go through a couple of changes. I think the mud pond will be good for this fish.