Blogs FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 


Welcome to Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine
Go Back   Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine > Hobbyist Koi Forums > General Koi Forum

General Koi Forum The main koi forum. Most posts should be made here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes

Old 06-25-2007   #11 (permalink)
Daihonmei
 
MikeM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 5,212
She is an extraordinary koi...nearly 36". Here is another shot by GregS borrowed from NI board. The different angle shows a lot about the body. The Beni is as even as one could hope.
Attached Thumbnails
your-thoughts-bkks-gc-bkks2007gcmatsunosuke.jpg  
MikeM is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2007   #12 (permalink)
Tategoi
 
111whalen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 425
Outstanding fish-I don't find it boring although I can see that as a younger fish it may be perceived that way. Simple, nice clean edges, volume, etc. It's nice to see simple beat complex; should happen more often.
111whalen is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2007   #13 (permalink)
Honmei
 
KoiCop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,675
She's the full package and an absolutely stunning GC.
KoiCop is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2007   #14 (permalink)
Tategoi
 
Eugeneg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Near Toronto, Canada
Posts: 396
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
She is an extraordinary koi...nearly 36". Here is another shot by GregS borrowed from NI board. The different angle shows a lot about the body. The Beni is as even as one could hope.
This shot shows a lot more it is amazing how one breeder can come up with so many winners year after year . I just bred one of his fish so will see what I get . I calculated that it would be top one of about 10 million that was culled in Japan to produce a fish like that . This year I am going to Alaska for 3 weeks but next year it is going to be Japan will have to start selling off fish again
Regards
Eugene
Eugeneg is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2007   #15 (permalink)
ppp
Sansai
 
ppp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 180
It is no doubt an extraordinary koi and I can certainly appreciate it in its entirety. It is definitely GC material, though I have no opinion on whether it was worthy or not for the simple reason that I do not know what competition it was facing.

But....I still don't buy the pattern, even on a big fish. If there was any more hi, it'd be competing as a benigoi! Jokes aside, I feel a bit more shiroji would have further added to the quality of the fish as it would make that incredible hi stand out even more. Granted pattern is the least important factor amongst the judging criteria, but let me put it another way - IF you were asked to name something that could have made this koi even better than it already is, chances are you'd say a little more white around the shoulder area. The quest for the perfect koi (if ever there was such a thing) never ends!!
ppp is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2007   #16 (permalink)
Honmei
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Martinez,CA
Posts: 4,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by ppp View Post
It is no doubt an extraordinary koi and I can certainly appreciate it in its entirety. It is definitely GC material, though I have no opinion on whether it was worthy or not for the simple reason that I do not know what competition it was facing.

But....I still don't buy the pattern, even on a big fish. If there was any more hi, it'd be competing as a benigoi! Jokes aside, I feel a bit more shiroji would have further added to the quality of the fish as it would make that incredible hi stand out even more. Granted pattern is the least important factor amongst the judging criteria, but let me put it another way - IF you were asked to name something that could have made this koi even better than it already is, chances are you'd say a little more white around the shoulder area. The quest for the perfect koi (if ever there was such a thing) never ends!!
I think you are missing the point entirely.
Russell Peters is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2007   #17 (permalink)
Nisai
 
Eclipsar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 79
The koi was outstanding and imho an easy winner, also I think it was a couple of inches bigger than its rivals.

By the way one of its rivals was last year Grand Champion.

Regards
Chris
Eclipsar is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2007   #18 (permalink)
ppp
Sansai
 
ppp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell Peters View Post
I think you are missing the point entirely.
Please don't misunderstand me, Russell. As I said, I can and do appreciate the koi in its entirety. I'm not at all saying it's not a good koi, it's in fact a great one. Any koi kichi would give the world, the wife and the dog (will miss the dog) to own such a koi, myself not excepted. Not trying to take anything away from its victory at all. But haven't you ever looked at a fantastic koi and wondered "if only..(something)..., it would be even that much better"? Of course there's no such thing as a perfect koi, but sometimes the "if only" questions I ask myself make that dream and vision seem that much closer.
ppp is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2007   #19 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,907
I think when it comes to pattern there is the traditional or orthodox pattern , the unique pattern and the poor pattern ( that lack all balance and expression). But coming from a different perspective, there are patterns that fit fish and patterns that fit or don’t fit fish based on size, volume, sex and skin type. The tancho kohaku is one such example. A square tancho on a male fish looks out of place. Yet on a wide female, with a broad head, it is just the ticket to make the fish look very impressive.
When we judge koi in a show, we divide judging criteria into three priority systems based on age and size of koi. This is very hard to grasp for the beginner or the Internet koi keeper who has learned how to evaluate koi based on pictures of koi. Yet I’ll bet everyone can understand that we make allowances for shape and pattern development in tosai that we would not forgive so easily in adult koi? The same is true for pattern, that is, it is judged according to the fish, it’s age, size and sex.
So in juvenile koi ( Tosai and Nisai) we judge with an eye towards color and pattern and level of finish for the fish. This is because a koi show is a beauty contest and not a tategoi contest. The problem always arises however when a tategoi , in and of itself, is beautiful!? It breaks all rules as it is NOT finished and NOT about the pattern, but it is the best fish in competition. This is were subjectivity comes in. But that is a unique situation and a conversation for another time. Back to pattern. We all know that certain patterns are too heavy for baby show fish. Their time to show will be later on . Maybe when they reach adult size. We also frequently see fish with too small a pattern for any adult, win hands down as the thinner body and male white makes these patterns very beautiful. The male body line is ideal for this look. And a young ‘budding’ female body has to great advantage and is likely not going to be as finished in color as a young male so body can’t push a well patterned male out of the way so easily as it can and will at size 60 cm.
There is also an evolutionary consideration to pattern in young koi. I’ve noticed that from ‘picture judging’ the new enthusiast is often not aware of this. Inazuma pattern can look very good on a young male show fish. Yet inazuma pattern is a primitive pattern and very easy for a fish to come by. Five step patterns ,on the other hand, with good dorsal arrangement are not so common. So in a competition of equal males, the rarer pattern will win.
Koi judging is about rarity. And the koi standard is about levels of accomplishment or put in the most basic term, it is about rarity. It is rare to see a perfectly patterned finished gosanke with deep color and a normal, but pleasing, physical shape for the pattern the fish carries.
Running long----- JR
JasPR is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2007   #20 (permalink)
ppp
Sansai
 
ppp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 180
Hi JR,

Still learning from you masters and accept your points. Just a hypothetical question - if all other things are equal, in your opinion would a "rare 5 step patterned fish with good dorsal arrangement" have beaten this year's BKKS GC? Assuming they had perfectly identical 90cm bodies with identical conformation and the same thick and even beni.
ppp is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Travelling to Japan, any thoughts... rockman General Koi Forum 8 11-07-2006 05:20 PM
BKKS and the 2012 Summer Olympics in London luke frisbee General Koi Forum 12 04-17-2006 03:32 AM
BKKS 13th Annual Ireland Koi Show Koi Ireland Club News and Updates 0 04-28-2005 11:41 PM
BKKS' Show calendar for 2005 Bern Club News and Updates 1 03-15-2005 07:29 PM
Nishikigoi Summit comes to the BKKS National Bern Club News and Updates 0 04-08-2004 03:51 PM



©2008 Koi-Bito Magazine