your thoughts on BKKS GC

[Eugeneg]

The tancho kohaku is one such example. A square tancho on a male fish looks out of place. Yet on a wide female, with a broad head, it is just the ticket to make the fish look very impressive.

There was an article in a 10 year old Rinko Magazine and it stated that the Tancho spot should be as big and round as possible . For judgeing purposes
Regards
Eugene

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by ppp Hi JR, Still learning from you masters and accept your points. Just a hypothetical question - if all other things are equal, in your opinion would a "rare 5 step patterned fish with good dorsal arrangement" have beaten this year's BKKS GC? Assuming they had perfectly identical 90cm bodies with identical conformation and the same thick and even beni.

If all things are equal, then it comes down to pattern perference with the judges. Now this is if all things are equal....But in general it is rare to see a 90cm + GoSanke in good condition in the UK or even harder in the US.

[aquitori]

Just try to imagine this Kohaku at 90cm.....This is a Kohak at 16" and Nisai.

[KoiCop]

For those of you who don't follow the NI board (KoiMag.com) here's a post re: this very special koi from a very special person -- none other that Peter Waddington, whose Infiltration shop has provided no less that 16 BKKS GCs:

To the many Koi enthusiasts the world over who have never visited Japan we can forgive them in their belief that one simply has to get off the plane at Tokyo's Narita airport and then be able to see and buy fantastic Koi all over Japan.

To the stalwarts who have been to Japan on many occasions they know this is not so as the Koi areas of Japan are miles and miles apart and, for the most part the Koi offered for sale are just pretty general grade examples in most outlets - with a few exceptions. Also travel costs throughout Japan do not come cheap.

To find Nishikigoi the likes of the best displayed at BKKS 'Koi 2007' this is almost like finding a needle in a haystack simply because Koi of this level are very few and far between even in Japan.

Just in case some visitors to BKKS 'Koi 2007' may go away thinking they have seen the best Koi in the UK - they have, thanks to the owners who risked transporting them to and from the show for us all to see. However, there were some examples at that show that rank amongst the very best in the world - including Japan - Nishikigoi don't get any better than some of those seen at Newark this year.

To the serious Koi collectors in the UK - Bill Oakley; John Hellens and a few others, they will freely admit that the difficulty in buying a special Koi is not the problem but finding them is almost impossible.
To give a true example of this search for a very special Koi I'll detail what was involved in the story of the Kohaku that took Supreme Champion at Koi 2007.

In September 2004 before we left for our buying trip to Japan, Bill Oakley asked us to look out for very special Koi and keep him up to date in the UK by email photographs and details of breeder and sizes. As Bill is an extremely busy businessman he could only find time to make the trip to Japan IF we could first find Koi which were potentially special enough for him to spare the time and make the journey.

We arrived in Japan in early October and made our way to our base in Nagaoka, Niigata and made our way around all the breeders to determine when their special harvests would be carried out and took notes of these in our diaries. We also made contact with Mr. Onoda in Osaka - many miles away, to find out his current stock position.
As the Yamakoshi harvests came in from the mud ponds we visited all the farms - and I mean ALL the farms to look for Koi for our own stocks and for those special ones for Bill. I'll list just some of the farms visited to give an impression of our searches:- (in no particular order)
Marudo
Hoshikin
Nogami
Hiroi Seiji
Maruhoshi
Dainichi
Yamamatsu
Shintaro
Igarashi Kazuto
Torazo
Marusei
Jinbei
Izumiya
Hosokai
Maruju
Yagenji
Hiroi Koniasu (Yozen)
Shinoda
Kansuke
Hasegawa
And a host of smaller breeders.

We found many Koi for our own stocks but very few for Bill but we managed to send a few pictures to him of some special Koi. Thesr were some very special Koi seen but some had lost the odd scale during the harvesting so these were discounted. Bill bought some Koi by picture but they did not warrant him coming over to see them.

After this we flew from Niigata airport to Osaka where we were collected by Mr. Onoda of the Mihara Nishikigoi farm and he showed us his many large Go-Sanke kept all year round in his large concrete ponds. One Kohaku jumped out at us - 93cms, we inspected this closely in a bowl and took many photographs of the Koi. Upon asking the price Mr. Onoda said it 'might' be for sale but first would have to make a telephone call! We left for the airport and made our way back to Niigata.

We then waited for Toshio Sakai to transport all his Koi grown in Niigata back to Isawa and then made the road journey down to see them - this is a five hour drive by freeway. On arrival we explained that Bill was looking for a special Koi and asked him to show us his best. After three or four Koi had been bowled and discounted he netted the Kohaku and explained that this Koi had just returned from the Momotaro 1500 ton pond in Okayama after spending one year growing there - the Koi was magnificent at around 83cms. We emailed the picture to Bill who immediately agreed to come over and see the Koi.

We took Bill and Peter Chester up to Niigata to witness the effects of the earthquake and then we went back to Osaka and Isawa - Bill bought Koi from both breeders including the Kohaku from Isawa.
The Kohaku was taken directly to Bill's pond where she made a brief showing at BKKS 'Koi 2005' where Mark Gardner took his magnificent photograph of her but she just was not big enough in size and volume to take an award.
She was rested in 2006 after she had unfortunately spawned in Bill's pond and had lost her volume. Since then she has fed and grown to be the truly magnificent Kohaku that is now the Champion Koi in the UK.
Even after buying these Koi with great potential one has to transport them to the UK and care for them all year round and keeping Koi can be frought with problems as many of you know - a damaged scale here, a shimi there - the list goes on.

This magnificent Kohaku sailed through the years in Bill's pond with no problems at all and showed herself superbly at the show. Bill also had a magnificent Yagenji Shiro Utsuri for the show which was magnificent last Monday but turned yellow on Wednesday - that's Koi for you.

The reason for this posting is to say that the Koi entered by Bill and John and some others at Koi 2007 were not just the best Koi in the UK but rank amongst the very best in the world.

Our thanks to ALL the exhibitors for taking their precious Koi to 2007 and letting us all see them despite the weather - and the BKKS National is still the best show for high class Koi outside of Japan! Waddy.

And in a follow-on by him:

In all the years of BKKS National shows I have seen all the winners - before Koi 2007 my hands-down favourite all-time winner was the Sanke known as Doris - a magical Koi which won the National three times - also bred by Toshio Sakai.

Now after seeing this magnificent Kohaku I'm not so sure of my favourite any more!

In view of her perfect condition and deportment at Newark if some collector asked me to return to Japan in autumn and find one better I think I would have to decline!

She is, one VERY special Koi which deserved to take the coveted award especially in view of the stiff competition.
Thanks again for your comments, Peter.

[JasPR]

Triple P, to finish the thought-

As we get to sexually mature fish ( age 4 size 60 cm plus), conformation makes a big leap up the priority list. Conformation can now be 'superior, average or inferior' and not just normal or pleasing based on age and sex of a junenile koi. And as the skin matures and is fully evolved, the quality , along with the conformation and color, become elements of quality. The pattern finds itself last in consideration among all these other elements.

So I tell you all this to say. " yes, I agree with you"! IF two fish ,equal in conformation, quality and color compete and one has a superior pattern ( balance and fit on the shiro frame, I.E. excellent Jitai) then the fish with the better pattern should win the tiebreaker. Nothing surprising there. But then again, there always is a better koi ---- even if still only in the mind of a gifted breeder. JR

[s2chang]

The possibility of the quality similar the 16" kohaku is very slim. Compounding with the 90 cm frame, you tell me the possibility? BTW, tell me more about that interesting 16 in kohaku? Please. stevec

[ppp]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Triple P, to finish the thought- As we get to sexually mature fish ( age 4 size 60 cm plus), conformation makes a big leap up the priority list. Conformation can now be 'superior, average or inferior' and not just normal or pleasing based on age and sex of a junenile koi. And as the skin matures and is fully evolved, the quality , along with the conformation and color, become elements of quality. The pattern finds itself last in consideration among all these other elements. So I tell you all this to say. " yes, I agree with you"! IF two fish ,equal in conformation, quality and color compete and one has a superior pattern ( balance and fit on the shiro frame, I.E. excellent Jitai) then the fish with the better pattern should win the tiebreaker. Nothing surprising there. But then again, there always is a better koi ---- even if still only in the mind of a gifted breeder. JR

Thanks, Don, for the very informative and enlightening read. I haven't been to Japan for koi hunting myself, but intend to do so this fall.

Thanks, JR. That's all I really was wondering about. And yes, I do realize how difficult (and expensive!!) it is to find koi with such incredible quality. By nature, I'm a perfectionist and I can't help asking myself the "what if" questions, even though I realize how rare and immensely difficult to find it will be, if it even exists at all.

[JasPR]

PPP, it all makes me wonder what koi will look like in 200 years? Anyone venture to guess? JR

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by s2chang The possibility of the quality similar the 16" kohaku is very slim. Compounding with the 90 cm frame, you tell me the possibility? BTW, tell me more about that interesting 16 in kohaku? Please. stevec

The pic of the Kohak is to show pattern size on fish. At some point in the BKKS the pattern look some what big on the fish. The Kohak is from Sakai Fish Farms....

[ppp]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR PPP, it all makes me wonder what koi will look like in 200 years? Anyone venture to guess? JR

Haha, I've always wondered too. At the moment, many breeders seem to be concentrating their efforts on improving size without sacrificing on colour quality or body conformation (given that many large sized fish start developing "crookedness"). This makes me wonder where this size thing will stop. 150cm perhaps in 100 years' time? This 2007 BKKS GC at 90cm would weigh approx 27lbs. A 150cm koi is estimated to weigh 125lbs and a 2metre koi would weigh about 300lbs!!! And hobbyists would need huge lakes to put them in. I think a koi that size would be able to swallow our toddlers!!