Buying Koi based on Photos

[ppp]

Judging from what has been said in the AKCA and BKKS threads, is buying koi based on breeders' photos a strict no-no amongst the advanced koi keepers? Obviously seeing the koi "live"is the most ideal situation, but if every single koi purchase warrants a trip to Koi Land, that would be both expensive and time consuming.

I think trust is one factor. If your trusted dealer has seen the koi "live" and strongly recommends it to you, there might be a case for buying it without seeing it "live". What if the dealer has not seen it but the breeder strongly recommended it to him? Where is the line drawn?

Price is another consideration. One might take more risks on a cheaper koi bought out of interest to play/experiment with, but an expensive tategoi would likely warrant a special trip to Japan?

Some advice please? I hope I haven't answered my own questions already!

[schildkoi]

Now, please define "trust"? LOL There are but a small handful of people in the enitre world that I would "trust" on buying a picture from a photo. Heck, I know a certain poster (cough, JR, cough) that bought a koi based on a drawing Waddy made of the koi for him on a Napkin....I would have as well....he is one of the handful, along with Tim Waddy. There's a few others as well but as a general rule, nope, its not a good idea to buy from a photo.

Steve

[koiboi31]

Hit on a really relavent point for me with this question - In april this year my dealer was in Japan on a buying trip when the opportunity to buy a Kohaku that he felt suited me perfectly arose.
Two of my closest friends were also on this trip - upon seeing the koi it was decided that one of them should contact me in the UK with a phone call and E-mail pictures.

I was told the price landed in the UK and agreed to buy her subject to seeing her in the flesh..... This koi is now the pride of my collection.

Would i do the same again - yes if the same people were involved and i got the same feeling upon seeing the koi. Incidently picture i was sent is below.

[MikeM]

Steve is right.

But for those unable to personally visit and inspect the fish, not much choice. Try to get the evaluation of someone who has seen the fish. I have been known to get a friend or a K-B contact to pay a visit to a dealer near them to check out a koi and report to me. Kichi love window shopping for someone else...great excuse to visit the dealer! Also, have the dealer send photos taken from the side or odd angles... the photos they took but did not post on their site. These often show conformation or pattern issues not prominent in the "cover girl" shot. I often send photos to someone whose eye I respect for their independent commentary. Sometimes they see things I did not. Even after all of that, it's a gamble... but a bit better educated one.

If the koi is priced above, say, $750, and the dealer says they don't have any photos except the one on their website and won't or can't take more, don't buy. You may have to wait a week or more for it to be convenient to take photos. But, if the fish is all it seems to be, they'll get you photos from all angles to make the sale if they believe you are seriously interested. If you just curious, don't waste their time. you make it tough on the rest of us!

[moikoi]

your trusted dealer/breeder? does the dealer know your exact taste in that variety?

[Brutuscz]

I have bought koi online from 2 different dealers...champkoi and JKO. I have to admit, their photography was very good. The koi looked just as expected..and on a few occasions, even better. The photo can give you a good idea of pattern, shape and thickness...but not height. Also does not capture sheen at all. My local dealers are good...but carry mostly 10 inch and under koi. If I want a 16+inch koi...I have little choice but to use photography and the internet.
I also want to add...I've missed flaws in person, that I would have seen in a photo. I have a shiro utsuri with a crooked tail that i missed. If the fish is active in the bowl and splashing around...it can slip past you very easily.
Here is that fish...on the left, the day I bought it...easy to miss the crooked tail at 4 inches. On the right..easy to see at 9 inches. I had other pics of 4inches that showed the crooked tail..didn't see it at all!!!
A friend might use her as a breeder eventually. Still a cute little thing

[ppp]

Originally Posted by Brutuscz

I have bought koi online from 2 different dealers...champkoi and JKO. I have to admit, their photography was very good. The koi looked just as expected..and on a few occasions, even better. The photo can give you a good idea of pattern, shape and thickness...but not height. Also does not capture sheen at all. My local dealers are good...but carry mostly 10 inch and under koi. If I want a 16+inch koi...I have little choice but to use photography and the internet.
I also want to add...I've missed flaws in person, that I would have seen in a photo. I have a shiro utsuri with a crooked tail that i missed. If the fish is active in the bowl and splashing around...it can slip past you very easily.
Here is that fish...on the left, the day I bought it...easy to miss the crooked tail at 4 inches. On the right..easy to see at 9 inches. I had other pics of 4inches that showed the crooked tail..didn't see it at all!!!
A friend might use her as a breeder eventually. Still a cute little thing

Yes, I've encountered this many times too, especially for tosais. I find I can take my time and look carefully through 20 photos of different tosai in one batch and make a decision on one. But put the 20 in a dealer's pond and everything escapes me as they are just swimming around too fast to be able to get a good careful look. Many times after I've picked a fish from a photo, I cannot even recognise it when I see it "live" in a pond of 20 fish. Bigger fish are much easier to identify, of course.

[JasPR]

Don't do it, unless you absolutely have to--- jR

[Nancy M.]

I would NEVER buy any fish from a picture, no matter who the dealer is... I want to personally see it swimming, and examine every lil thing on it before even considering to purchase it...

[jnorth]

Originally Posted by Nancy M.

I would NEVER buy any fish from a picture, no matter who the dealer is... I want to personally see it swimming, and examine every lil thing on it before even considering to purchase it...

I would and do...but thats only because I can't get out to the west coast as much as I would want to to be able to shop in person...but I'd rather see them in person.