For those of you interested...

[jnorth]

Normally I would have kept this to myself but especially for those of you with well water I decided to post this. Go to my webpage in my sig and on the main page click the link that says "Copper and Zinc Kills" to see what I'm talking about.

[lypope]

I read about that on KV, but since REC (appropriately) didn't identify the pond owner I had no idea it was your pond. Amazing story and quite a lesson for all koi keepers to learn. I never would have thought to have an analysis of the water.

[aquitori]

Pretty interesting stuff, I had read it in the club newsletter...Thanks for sharing Jim. When I buy some land in LB I will make sure to test the well water on the property...

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by lypope I read about that on KV, but since REC (appropriately) didn't identify the pond owner I had no idea it was your pond. Amazing story and quite a lesson for all koi keepers to learn. I never would have thought to have an analysis of the water.

I had asked him not to until I had it resolved (he wouldn't have anyway). I need to go over there and post a followup sometime tonight.

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori Pretty interesting stuff, I had read it in the club newsletter...Thanks for sharing Jim. When I buy some land in LB I will make sure to test the well water on the property...

You know its probably leeching in from the pipes and not the well water itself. I need to try and get a sample from the well itself but its pretty deep so it won't be easy.

[cppond]

I posted the below on another board.

Quote: "Copper is extremely poisonous to fish and should not be used in farm piping, or pumps, although some farms do get away with limited amounts of copper in pumps. It is readily dissolved in acidic water, and in waters of low ionic strength (i.e. waters such as groundwater, with very low amounts of dissolved metals or salts), the poisonous effect is seen at such low values as 0.001-0.005 mg/L. There is less danger in waters of high ionic strength, as then the copper is complexed by various organic and inorganic compounds." Suspended solids "Copper is toxic at high concentrations. For example, copper is poisonous to Rainbow trout at concentrations of approximately 0.04 mg Cu /L. Drinking water is regulated well below toxic levels for humans. The Canadian guideline is a maximum copper concentration of 1.0 mg Cu/L to avoid taste and staining problems." Copper Treatments for Dugouts "If you are moving into a newly constructed home, and the water lines are copper, these lines will leach copper into the water for a short period of time until the lines oxidize and become stable. Only use water from this new home if you are treating it with a DI or RO unit for the first few months. A simple water test kit for copper will indicate as to when the water becomes safe for you to use." Poison Prevention: Protecting Your Aquarium from Contaminating Toxins "Potential Hazards to Fish, Wildlife, and Other Non-Human Biota: Elevated concentrations of copper in water are particularly toxic to many species of algae, bacilli, fungi, crustaceans, annelids, cyprinids, and salmonids. Most adult fish are able to tolerate relatively high concentrations of copper for short periods of time. The critical effect of copper is its greater toxicity to younger fish." Attachment 2 - Health Effects of Seven Metals Commonly Found in Burn Ash: LEA Advisory #56

[jnorth]

Interesting stuff Carl but I want to point out that my house is not new. It was built in the 70s. This is a problem that has been steadily building over the years until it finally wiped out their immune systems. Also my problem is a combination of high copper AND zinc levels which is a bit different then you see talked about on the web. Mostly you just hear about copper. Another item to point out is that in many cases when its a copper kill off it usually is not gradual like it was in this case. I think in this season alone I have seen every major skin problem a koi could have all in one pond and in some cases on the same koi. In hindsight knowing that I do water changes every other day and that my filtration system is working correctly I should have checked the water for heavy metals long ago. Another clue would have been the health of my wifes um longfin koi in my 3rd pond. I flush that filter maybe twice a year and almost never do any water changes. In fact about all I do is top it off but mostly it gets its water in the form of rain. Never a problem in that pond (except that it has longfins in it). Tough lesson and one I hope others will learn before it gets as far as it did in my ponds.

[KoiCop]

Jim . . .

Like others, I was following the thread on KV. Sad indeed to hear it was you. So sorry.

If nothing else, some good might come from this if the knowledge gained helps other folk on down the road.

[MikeM]

Jim, that is heartbreaking. You're quite a fellow to go through that and not give up.

Regarding the use of sodium thiosulphate to neutralize metals, can you give details on rate of application and anything else you've learned about that? ...How are your gals doing now? I'm wondering how long it takes for the immune system to recover.

[cppond]

You're quite right, Jim. My concern is that the copper is not coming from your pipes as the implication of one of these articles is that once the pipes oxidize that no longer occurs.

Whatever the source, I hope you can work it out.

Quote: Originally Posted by jnorth Interesting stuff Carl but I want to point out that my house is not new. It was built in the 70s. This is a problem that has been steadily building over the years until it finally wiped out their immune systems. Also my problem is a combination of high copper AND zinc levels which is a bit different then you see talked about on the web. Mostly you just hear about copper. Another item to point out is that in many cases when its a copper kill off it usually is not gradual like it was in this case. I think in this season alone I have seen every major skin problem a koi could have all in one pond and in some cases on the same koi. In hindsight knowing that I do water changes every other day and that my filtration system is working correctly I should have checked the water for heavy metals long ago. Another clue would have been the health of my wifes um longfin koi in my 3rd pond. I flush that filter maybe twice a year and almost never do any water changes. In fact about all I do is top it off but mostly it gets its water in the form of rain. Never a problem in that pond (except that it has longfins in it). Tough lesson and one I hope others will learn before it gets as far as it did in my ponds.