Need soft water in my mud pond !

[JasPR]

Nope. I'm correct. The physiology of carp came before the practice of raising koi on the west coast!

a larvae can not feed, swim, has no swim bladder and formed mouth or gills when it hatches- that is a biological fact. It is also a fact that fry have much shorter guts than adults and use different muscles to swim compared to adults. They are not fish of deep water at this point. I mentioned predation issues in my first post, you obviously missed that as your comments suggest that I didn't address that. I predicated all this by saying nature allows a carp to produce 150,000 plus young as a buffer against predation and as a survival mechanism.
To bring it all home- carp larvae and fry are highly carnivorous and hunt moving objects. Adult koi are omnivores and browsers. Fry have short guts and must eat frequently. Adult koi have long guts and pass food over a 3 to 8 hour period depending on temperature. Lavae and fry are creatures of the margins and shallow depth because it matches their physiology and suits theri behavior. This is partly due to the lack of heavy red and white muscle mass and also the effect of laminar layers that exit at the edge of streams, around rock out croppings and even in VORTEX cylinders. It is a force that allows for a 'still zone' for none strong swimmers to exist in moving water like rivers, streams and open lakes. Adult carp are creatures of the open water. - JR

[Super Kindai]

Showa' Fry...............

[Richard Rombold]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Nope. I'm correct. The physiology of carp came before the practice of raising koi on the west coast! a larvae can not feed, swim, has no swim bladder and formed mouth or gills when it hatches- that is a biological fact. It is also a fact that fry have much shorter guts than adults and use different muscles to swim compared to adults. They are not fish of deep water at this point. I mentioned predation issues in my first post, you obviously missed that as your comments suggest that I didn't address that. I predicated all this by saying nature allows a carp to produce 150,000 plus young as a buffer against predation and as a survival mechanism. To bring it all home- carp larvae and fry are highly carnivorous and hunt moving objects. Adult koi are omnivores and browsers. Fry have short guts and must eat frequently. Adult koi have long guts and pass food over a 3 to 8 hour period depending on temperature. Lavae and fry are creatures of the margins and shallow depth because it matches their physiology and suits theri behavior. This is partly due to the lack of heavy red and white muscle mass and also the effect of laminar layers that exit at the edge of streams, around rock out croppings and even in VORTEX cylinders. It is a force that allows for a 'still zone' for none strong swimmers to exist in moving water like rivers, streams and open lakes. Adult carp are creatures of the open water. - JR

JR, you nipping at the bottle? All interesting facts, but no context to the discussion. I might as well ramble on about skeletal development, but what would be the point? You made some statements in earlier posts that were just plain wrong. That's it. No big deal. A managed koi spawn is very different from a wild spawn, and I don't see the value of comparing the two. However, wild carp and koi do share the same physiology. I guess we agree there.

[JasPR]

I can only lead you to water my friend, I can't make you drink! -- JR

[Andrew Hoag]

I've been trying to reply to your disscussion for the last two nights, but between the computer crashing and my reply simply not going through last night, I haven't been able to join in. If this message goes through, I just want to say thanks. Though opinions obviously vary, there has been alot of good suggestions and I intent on reading all the comments over a couple times more before deciding on my approach for next year.

Andrew Hoag

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by Andrew Hoag I've been trying to reply to your disscussion for the last two nights, but between the computer crashing and my reply simply not going through last night, I haven't been able to join in. If this message goes through, I just want to say thanks. Though opinions obviously vary, there has been alot of good suggestions and I intent on reading all the comments over a couple times more before deciding on my approach for next year. Andrew Hoag

Andrew where are you from? Do you have pics of some of these fish you are going to put in the mudpond?

[Richard Rombold]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR I can only lead you to water my friend, I can't make you drink! -- JR

Well JR, if you ever come through Fresno I'll lead you to a cold tall one. It was fun.