LEE in Grand Cayman....

[JanT]

On behalf of the Rocky Mountain Koi Club and my esteemed Show Co-Chair, Mr. Bob Winkler, we would like you to consider this your personal invitation to get yourself to our KOI SHOW.
This show, now in it's 18th annual production, will feature approx. 150-200 koi prime for show. It is to be held weekend after next, AUGUST 18-19 in DENVER,COLORADO.

Please see our website at rmkc.org for more information and entry forms.

Jan Thompson
RMKC Koi Show Co-Chairman

We would absolutely love to have you.

[Lee]

Dear Jan,

I have no doubt whatsoever that your forthcoming show will be a great success.

Inviting as many hobbyists to enter and participate provides a proper and welcoming venue for all koi shows...is obviously the only way to have a koi show.

I, however, must decline your generous invitation as your show conflicts with the first Cayman Island Koi Show.

Regardless, of what is right and what is clearly wrong...our show is going to be limited to only the residents of this island and our nearby sister Cayman Islands; and, whilst these restrictive rules (or suggestions) will no doubt allow our show committee to pretty much pre-determine whom the awards will go to...before the show - they are now in the process of pre-ordering all the trophies at this time!

Jan, don't you agree having the trophies pre-ordered, as well as, pre-engraved will save everyone at the banquet all that wasted time in handing them out...and, provide us all with more time to drink, dance and party?

And, whilst I cannot make your koi show the evidence of your seeking to broaden your show's entrants and increase it's partipants is clearly recognised as a positive and liberal step forward in doing what is right and correct in expanding our hobby to every hobbyist possible.

I am certain you will agree that is so much nicer than openng the door to the very few as is being tendered here in Grand Cayman - where the committee members shall most probably only open their show doors to those few entrants who are from Grand Cayman and our sister islands, Little Cayman and Cayman Brac.

Jan, I can only hope that all koi shows are going to be recognised as a place of welcome where koi hobbyists of like mind, like spirit and opened warm hearts are encouraged in order that we may all similarly share our beloved fish with as many people as is possible. And, not just a very few -

I am certain you will agree that if our hobby is to grow and more hobbyists are encouraged to enter koi shows it will require encouraging more entrants, more participants - rather than seeking to discourage anyone outside of our own beloved state, or nearby state(s); as only by welcoming 'everyone' can the growth of our beloved hobby continue to expand - and, our koi shows be a in-gathering of our distant koi family.

I am certain you also agree, otherwise, you would not have invited me to attend your show. Correct?

Indeed, to be a true koi hobbyist and a believer in the spirt of an open koi show - is to include more and more into our hobby.

Thus, I hope you will make every possible effort to let everyone in our hobby know (in advance and often, again) of your forthcoming koi show in Colorado; and, that you will find the narrow obsolete minded show regulations as has been set forth here in Grand Cayman by our own koi club show committee as abhorrent as I.

Respectfully,

Lee Aronfeld
Grand Cayman

[schildkoi]

I hate to say this to you, but you know me as well as anyone and have always cherished my "directness."

Now, MANY clubs who put on the FIRST show will have limitations. Some are for club members only. Without a huge treasury and with limited funds and lack of any equipment along with being in an entirely new area, those types of limitations can be in place. The intial capital outlay is beyonf what many new clubs can afford to put on their FIRST show. So while you reflect on this, I hope you can put together an apology for Sue and all of the people on their club who worked so hard to put on what by all accounts was a successful first show.

Steve

[Lee]

Dear Steve,

At everyone's table there is always room for another 'wanted' guest.

I assure you that if I came to your table you would somehow find room and space for me, yes?

Thus, the concept of not encouraging and/or actually discouraging participation is as evidenced by this courtroom by the trophies awarded. And, to whom they went...is pretty clear evidence of perhaps, why?

Whilst I know you're not one to cast aspirions that which is too obvious, is too obvious to be overlooked.

Steve, there is an old axiom regarding this concept of what is - a horse is a horse...however, ther is a also a Latin term that also fits and any attorneys reading this will know it's meaning...'Res Ipso'

Bottom line. If anyone is owed an apology. In my opinion that apology is owed to you and me and to everyone else...in the hobby who was either not encouraged or who was discouraged or who wasn't told of the show or wasn't aware of the show going forward...and, who would have (or might have) participated.

I show my fish, if you call, because our mutual friend and colleague Mr Joe White once told me, "Lee, you have to show your fish because it is important for this hobby that those with koi must show them. As only by showing good quality koi do we encourage others to join this hobby".

Thus, how do you explain how not encouraging participation helps the hobby?

As for it being their first show...that's simply nonsense.

I remember only last November at the Naples show. Also a first show put on by John Sprinkle and Southern ZNA - there were tanks made magically available. And, there was every effort made to both increase and to encourage EVERYONE'S participation - And, it was done by everyone and for everyone who choose to enter their fish...equally.

Steve, I also remember only a few months ago at the SKE show in Winston-Salem, also a first show...those incredible ladies who put that show on did everything in their human power to bring as many vendors, hobbyists and fish as they could gather together under one roof - to make their show a show to remember. And, a show to return to again and again!

A koi show that has as it's agenda primarily for Minnisotans and perhaps the surrounding state; isn't exactly a warm and cuddly koi welcoming koi show. Nor, venue which as a koi hobbyist I consider to be the very heart and soul of koi keeping.

Thus, I am shocked that you of all people would find a shut door to anyone in our hobby to which you have put so much of your heart into... as being a welcomed and wanted tool of our beloved hobby.

Apology?

Steve, you're right, we are all owed an apology...for being excluded - irregardless of whatever reason ~ whatsoever.

Either the koi show is a gathering of family. Or, it's just a private show for certain family members.

My love of this hobby has as much to do with a warm greeting and welcome from you and Cheryl, as it is for showing my fish. However, not being encouraged to be there...is hardly what I have always respected as the spirit of koi showing and the koi hobby.

I think perhaps, the heat of the Illinois prarie, has gotten to you today. Rethink your statement. As if you praise exclusion, that will breed, only shows that allow men to show fish , or women, or those from Minnesota.

I will stand and argue to my last breath...that if this hobby is to be open to all, and to grow, it has to be opened to all. And, all have to be welcomed and all have to be encouraged to participate.

And, not sometimes. But, all the time.

With my respects,

Lee Aronfeld
Grand Cayman

Quote: Originally Posted by schildkoi I hate to say this to you, but you know me as well as anyone and have always cherished my "directness." Now, MANY clubs who put on the FIRST show will have limitations. Some are for club members only. Without a huge treasury and with limited funds and lack of any equipment along with being in an entirely new area, those types of limitations can be in place. The intial capital outlay is beyonf what many new clubs can afford to put on their FIRST show. So while you reflect on this, I hope you can put together an apology for Sue and all of the people on their club who worked so hard to put on what by all accounts was a successful first show. Steve

[cheekylemur]

Lee, I've never met you, and hope that I'll be able to travel and visit more shows and have a chance to meet everyone in person. I've got no hard feelings about the comments you made, because there's obviously something bothering you deeply.

The phrasing of the website was designed to encourage our members and those in the area, many of whom like me had never even attended a show, more less shown fish before. The grand champion awards going largely to the few members you has been involved in the show circuit and higher end collecting a long time is hardly a grand conspiracy. Especially not given the amount of time and energy that our experienced members volunteered to help those without the knowledge of how to safely show their fish feel that there was a reason for them to attend and bring their collection (it took a lot of encouragement to have people bring their fish, and those competing with the grand, large entries were very gracious in participating in only the largest size categories, and leaving lots of openings for others to have a successful show in the smaller categories to have their smaller, less developed collections rewarded).

Even knowing I didn't have any fish at home and that my first show entry would be a grow out contest fish I picked up Sunday night, I was able to bring home an award, and it's sitting next to my Q-tank, as a reminder that by learning from what I saw and the people I met, I have a chance to develop my fish to the level of the few high-end animals I got to see in person for the first time that weekend. From your posts, I think that is the kind of outcome of a koi show you would applaud.

So yes, there was a tremendous effort to encourage participation among newcomers to showing, even if not quite as much priority was put on drawing in more experienced hobbyists. And for me, at least, that certainly is a gesture toward the kind of atmosphere you seem to desire - but limited resources mean that choices need to be made. And I'm perfectly comfortable knowing that I could contribute to bringing new "family members", as you call them, into this space.

No one who had inquired about exhibiting would have been turned away, but when a club that was only a few months old began to discuss having a show, there was a great deal of uncertainty about how much we would be able to accomplish. Club membership was not required to exhibit. The club offered support to anyone who needed to learn about bagging and transporting, more experienced members personally drove out with oxygen and supplies to help get other fish to the show, and generally made a great effort to make this show about people interested in koikeeping, not just about which people had the finest fish. If that intention isn't clear in the materials, then surely that is something for the club to be aware of.

For as limited a treasury as the club had at such an early point in its existence, and the tremendous investment in infrastructure from the ground up, please be a little patient about the lack of funds devoted to national advertising. And please do not act so indignant you missed the announcement - the show was announced eight months in advance on three well-trafficked internet forums including this one, with updates given periodically, and a banner ad running on KS. Harping on how you failed to read that thread just seems a little silly to me.

As far as promoting koi keeping, and bringing people with those shared interests together, there hasn't been much of a network in this region. There aren't very many local faces who understood the logistics of a show, especially when it comes to knowing how things run behind the scenes. This is a good start. And yes, it is just a start, we've all learned for the first time how to do this, and now we can improve on that.

And give those of us who weren't already part of your nationwide koi-loving family some credit - we're not just blindly following orders from a few individuals who tricked us so they could rack up a new wall of trophies.

[JanT]

Yes, I have to agree with you on almost all your points when it comes to extending friendship in koi by making all koi kichi welcome to our Club events.

However, upon entering this hobby of keeping koi, there is an understanding that one must also be responsible for what he/she seeks to derive from it. By that I mean if you want to show your fish, if you enjoying traveling to others venues, you must take on the responsibility to do that..........diligently seek out the information needed, research where, when, how you can and will attend. As I know you have done this before, you will surely understand where I come from also.

I have been doing just that, along with my husband since 1996. We 'invited ourselves', we knew no one, were not politically connected, yet we had the love of koi and showing. We live in Colorado, yet travelled to Oklahoma City, Phoenix, AZ., Chicago, Il., San Jose, CA., San Diego, CA., Orlando, FL., and other places to koi shows and all totally without invitations. Most times we toted our beloved koi, other times we went just to 'study' the hobby in general and see how shows were put on. Let me add that I chose most often to try to contact each sponsoring Club/show-chair in advance to see if others such as us were to be made tanks/banquet tickets available. Sometimes I did not even get a return call or email, but I perservered anyway as I am a stubborn one. Disappointments happen. I never took it personally.

I am now in my 3rd year running as Co-Chair of our RMKC Show and let me tell you what Mr. Childers has said is so true. There is a huge amount of work and very few to do it (unless by a seasoned and teamwork oriented group who have done it for a awhile). Most times the reason is simply because folks do not know what is involved or needed and are afraid. For a totally new club, I cannot even imagine trying to cover everything and do it 100% - just doesn't happen. As most things go, there isn't perfection here. You do the best you can, as I think UMKC has certainly done to a fine degree!
I hopefully have shed the light here, that you can rest assured, you are probably welcome at any AKCA Koi Show you should so choose to attend, that is unless specifically told it is CLOSED to members only, such as your group has chosen to do.
As to your previous commitment on our RMKC Show date, I am sorry you will not be able to attend our Show. You will most certainly miss a grand time.

[cindy]

Quote: I assure you that if I came to your table you would somehow find room and space for me, yes?

Always room for you sweetie! Louisville show. Memorial Day weekend. Last weekend in May. We're always happy for you to visit.

[Lee]

I am certain you have attended many shows.

Maybe, not as many as I have. Nor, have you ever travelled as far I do, to attend the number of shows I attend every year - nor is it as difficult for you to get yourself and your fish to these shows, as it is for me.

There is no comparison, I am certain of that.

Nonetheless, you clearly did not read what I wrote. Or, you failed to grasp what the content was...intended to convey.

And, whilst you wrote a lovely reply you didn't write a reply to what I had written.

Anyway, those who got the point of what my message was intended to convery did understand and did get the point. And, that was all I was wanting to do...

My friend, you're welcome to come to our koi club shows, anytime you're in our neighborhood, too.

All the best,

Lee Aronfeld
Grand Cayman Island
British West Indies

[aquitori]

As I sit here reading this, I am reminded of my first koi show and how hard it was for me to bring one fish. Yes, I said one fish!!! I have been on many sides of this thing we call a "Koi Show".
Issue 1:
With clubs struggling to fill tanks nowadays, by their own members it is a sad thing. One koi show I attended a couple of years back 2 club members out of 70+ filled 2 tanks. The other 20 or so tanks were filled from out of towners.

Issue 2:
I think what Lee is getting at is an invite to all should be clear in all promotations, so none are left out.

Consenus:
Nowadays, koi shows ride on some of the celebraties that attend, both "Professional" and "Hobbyist". It helps out hand and hand. I see both sides of this, but I think it is best routed through PM at this point.

I hope this public thread doesnt hurt the show and enlighten both sides.

Thanks,
Tony

[Auntiesue]

I will add one thing, and one thing only. If you would take the time to visit our web site, you will see a notation below the exhibitors packet that plainly says that ALL ARE WELCOME.

This conversation has greatly saddened me. Here in MN we are still glowing in our success of our very own first show - and it was a success BTW. You likely do not know that only 2 UMKC members even knew how to pull this off!! The rest volunteered and did what was asked of them. Yes, there were mistakes and we'll clean those up so next year is better then this year. But this conversation is taking so much of the after-glow and enjoyment away from us UMKC members. We worked OUR BUTTS off pulling this together and if we missed a few points along the way, I'm sorry for that. With the club's limited resources and VERY LIMITED manpower (we have only 30 active members), it would have been impossible to cover all our bases including personal invitations to a select few.

Now let this die, give us the opportunity to pat ourselves on the back a little and enjoy our success instead of having to defend what we know was a great introduction of koi to a market (MN) that is so new in the US.

I doubt that you would have attended anyway Lee. MN is just too far for you to travel and I doubt Ray Abel would have brought your fish up here for such a new and small show.

Sue