Sick Fish!

[gcuss]

Hello all,

I've been lurking around the forum for some time now. Being new to Koi, I've had some pitfalls. But just as I think I'm getting a handle on things... Problems pop up. One of my favorite fish has white spots on him as well as some white on the ends of his fins. I'm not sure what's wrong with him and I'll apologize in advance for not providing any photos. I netted him last night when I noticed the discoloration and was thinking ahead as I grabbed my camera... only problem is the camera battery was dead...

Anyway, the pond...

1500 gals
turnover rate of once per/hour

ph - 7.5
nitrite - 0
amonia - 0
salt - .2% ( I bumped the salt up last night, normally I try and keep it around .1)
temp - 21 c
fish load - 8 fish all under 28cm

I dosed the whole pond in melafix last night to try and slow down the fin rot.

Any suggestions? I'm new to the area and haven't really met anyone who I could call for help. I don't have a microscope to do a scrape (and wouldn't know what to look for in the first place)

Thanks for any help, and if need be I'll net the little guy again and take some photos. I just didn't want to stress him out further...

Grant

[saratogatan]

We will try our best.

First, what made you think that is fin-rot ?

Second, do you know what is in Melafix ? It is not recommended that melafix be applied with salt. Now that your salinity is at 0.2%, it is not bad. Please add air stone to the pond.

where are you located ? White spot can be many things, there exist no single treatment for all of them.

please tell us how often you change water, how much ? please also post a photo or 2. That will help us understande what might be wrong.

stan

[Dan Blatt]

As already mentioned....need more info. Picture would be better. Is the fin(s) eroding or just white spots on them and body? Melafix won't do much...all I've ever seen using it is it might slow somethings down for a day or two at best.
Any of the other koi showing similar spots?

[gcuss]

Thanks very much for the quick response.

Here's a photo of the guy. He was one of my "test" fish and I really like the little mutt. I guess he's been here from the start of my folleys...

Anyway, you can see in the photo the rot on the fin as well as the white on his tail fin. Since last night it's improved dramatically. He did have a few white spots on his body that seem to have cleared up already. I may have hit the panic button a little too hard here, but better safe than sorry.

I do a 10% water change religiously each week. Added an airstone last night to increase the oxygen. (just got lucky here... trying the common sense approach) Anyway, thanks for your help again.

Grant

[gcuss]

Hi Dan,

No other fish showing any signs of trouble. As you can imagine, got quite paranoid and really checked everyone out carefully upon the discovery of "Crazy Town"s condition. (my son named him... gotta love 5 year olds)

Thanks again for all the help.

Grant

[Dan Blatt]

From what I can see on the photo, fins are eroding away. I personally would get some Tri-Neocide dip and use it. I've always had excellent luck with it when I managed my friend's koi business. If you can't get it locally, I would have it sent overnight.
Just a tip. It usually come in 5 gallon packets, although you might be able to get it in a smaller size. Anyway if you ger the 5 gallon, only mix up 1 gallon in a 1 gallon milk conainer. Then pour enough into a clear fish bag to essentially cover half the koi (back out of the dip so to speak). Move solution back and forth periodically over the koi and infected areas for 3- 5 minutes. Good if you support bag in koi bowl with water...less stressful on fish. Follow dipping instructions otherwise. Release koi (slip out of bag...save as much dip as you can and tie off bag for next day) into the clean water in bowl, then back into pond or tank. Avoid getting the dip into pond or tank. Usually see result in a day or two.
The reason I said mix only partial amount and then use only enough to partially cover the koi in the bag is that you just waste it in my opinion if you follow instructions and mix it all and then use it all at once. Also you'll have extra (in the milk container) if dipping bag get too grungy. Store it out of the light and it's good for quite awhile. You also have extra dry powder to mix in the future (stored properly).

[Dan Blatt]

Here's a couple links...there are others. Different names, same stuff.

Tricide-Neo with free shipping!

Neocide 3 - A breakthrough in the treatment of Ulcer Disease in Koi.

[saratogatan]

it is fin rot. Usually, that is a result of sub-par water quality. Please tell us something about your filter system, and how oftern you clean them.

I cannot tell from the photo what the white spots are. Can you try to put the koi in a bowl and take a photo from the top ?

while you at at it, please try this :
rotten fin : clean it with Iodine (H2O2 will be OK), apply triple anti biotic ointment
white spot : clean it with hydrogen per-oxide. apply same triple -anti bitotic ointment if you like. This white spot could be fungus florish on opening created by parasites. H2O2 will take care of the fungus.

stan

[gcuss]

Ok, first off, thanks again. Can't tell you how helpful this is.

My filter system...

My water goes through a bottom drain and then passes a settlement chamber. From there it's pumped through a Tetra pressurized filter, the up through a bog/bio falls. It's probably not the best way to do it, but the hobby snuck up on me by accident and now I'm planning a "good" pond for the spring next year.

The bio/bog thing is simply a 100 gal holding pond above the main pond. The water comes up through a drain in the middle and I've filled it with scrubbie type things (big mat, that I cut up) and I have it packed with floating/submersible plants. Surface area is about 16 sq. ft. and you can't see the water for the plants. Completely DIY...

I don't have a skimmer but the main pond is covered so I don't get a lot of debris at all.

I back flush the pressure filter once a week (this is how I evacuate some of the water for the water change along with settlement chamber cleaning) About once a month I pop out the pressure filter and clean the mech portion of it taking care to be quick so as not to damage the bacteria colony in the bio part. All sponges from filter are rinsed with pond water before putting them back in after cleaning. The scrubbies aren't really mucked with in the upper pond. I check my water constantly for nitrite/amonia/salt/ph and see hardly any variation in the results. (the salt moves around a titch but the ph/nitrite/amonia are pretty much fixed)

I have a 20watt UV on a seperate pump that I've positioned to help things along on the bottom of the pond to keep stuff moving towards the bottom drain. (again, my newness shines through, and what I thought was a reasonable slope towards the drain was painfully inadequate... lesson learned)

Open to suggestions, and I'll be using and abusing all who can help next year before I "break ground" on the new pond with regards to design and such....

Grant

*** I have iodine but I'm unsure of what/where to get the triple antibiotic ointment. Also ordering the tri-neocide as suggested.

[CarolinaGirl]

triple antiobiotic ointment is also called neosporin ointment. Its sold in the first aid department of most grocery stores.

Just for future use....when you have to handle a fish, don't use a towel. A towel (even a wet one) can damage the slime coat on the fish. Bubble wrap works very well, or just plain plastic bags.