Good broodstock/oyagoi

[l113892]

Is good broodstock/oyagoi over rated or is the number of years to develop good brood stock exaggerated?

In the 2004 earthquake, Mr. Hirasawa(Marudo) lost ALL of his female oyagoi. Just to be clear, he lost ALL his oyagoi. I have no idea what he did to recover, how many experiments went wrong, how many years it will take to know if he has the "right" combination of oyagoi now or if he'll need to continue to experiment with different pairs for years and years, but....

I will be going back to Japan in October. I will be purchasing nisai from the new parent stock Marudo has selected. Why? Because Marudo is my man. I have never been disappointed. I will be his guinea pig. You figure his new parent stock produced fry in Spring of 2005 after the 2004 earthquake so this year will be his first batch of nisai from the new parents.

I often post these two picture of two distinctly different Marudo kohaku that I purchased at different times. This year I will add a third, possibly very different female kohaku to the lot.

[aquitori]

I had heard Marudo had lost all his female oyagoi broodstock, but I dont think he lost it genetically. I also have heard and read alot of Japanese Hobbyist had lent alot of their own fish from the same breeders to help in the recovery.

[MikeM]

Let us know what you learn & find when you visit. ...I'm envious.

[koiczar]

Quote: Originally Posted by l113892 Is good broodstock/oyagoi over rated or is the number of years to develop good brood stock exaggerated? In the 2004 earthquake, Mr. Hirasawa(Marudo) lost ALL of his female oyagoi. Just to be clear, he lost ALL his oyagoi. I have no idea what he did to recover, how many experiments went wrong, how many years it will take to know if he has the "right" combination of oyagoi now or if he'll need to continue to experiment with different pairs for years and years, but.... I will be going back to Japan in October. I will be purchasing nisai from the new parent stock Marudo has selected. Why? Because Marudo is my man. I have never been disappointed. I will be his guinea pig. You figure his new parent stock produced fry in Spring of 2005 after the 2004 earthquake so this year will be his first batch of nisai from the new parents. I often post these two picture of two distinctly different Marudo kohaku that I purchased at different times. This year I will add a third, possibly very different female kohaku to the lot.

Mike

I agree with Antonio here. He DID NOT lose his genetically linked line, only his current Oyagoi. Also, As Tony pointed out, a lot of hobbyists loaned or sold fish back to the respective breeders just to help keep their higher end lines solvent.

BTW, when will you be in Niigata? Maybe we'll see you there!

Mike

[l113892]

Mike-

I'll be in Nagaoka October 22-28. I expect I'll visit Mr. Hirasawa at least three times. My experience in 2004 was that every time I went to the greenhouse, it was packed with customers. I hope to get a little personal time with Marudo and Devin Swanson- a US apprentice.

[dick benbow]

many of the breeders rallied around each other and loaned or outright gave parents to those that needed them.

Once you have access to the same genetics as your experience you can pick up from there. Folks like Hosokai have customer's they entrust with gene pool
stock with the understanding that if they need them, they come back. this is true with his asagi.

While females do contribute, it's really a male dominant contribution that matters to the pairing. Not that you can have an inferior female but for patterning, the male makes the difference.

Mike, I don't blame you for your confidence in this breeder. He apprenticed with the best and knows how to take care of the rest. Enjoy your trip. Don't forget us on this Chat line for any great stories or pictures you might be wanting to share....

[bekko]

Quote: While females do contribute, it's really a male dominant contribution that matters to the pairing. Not that you can have an inferior female but for patterning, the male makes the difference.

With all due respect Dick. I think this is an old wives tale. I would like to see some concrete evidence to that effect.

Known and proven oya give you a higher percentage of usable offspring. It's a numbers game. But you are still going to throw away at least 99 offspring out of 100.

A less-discussed advantage of known oya and known genetic lines is the predictability of the offspring. When you are working with the same individuals (or at least the same bloodline) year after year, you learn how to recognize a good offspring at a younger age. You are better able to predict their development. This has some dramatic effects on the bottom line. You can keep fewer fish during the summer cull and end up with just as many good tosai in the spring. You have to handle fewer fish during the second and third summer cull so the labor demand per tategoi declines. Your keep-fish are growing faster because they have more space, better water, more food, etc.

-steve

[l113892]

I think many of the comments here, minimize the impact of losing all the female oyagoi. I have to believe that this was a huge setback. I think the breeder will harvest his koi with much anxiety this Fall, not truly knowing what to expect. I'm hoping for the best as I'm sure Marudo is.

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by l113892 I think many of the comments here, minimize the impact of losing all the female oyagoi. I have to believe that this was a huge setback. I think the breeder will harvest his koi with much anxiety this Fall, not truly knowing what to expect. I'm hoping for the best as I'm sure Marudo is.

Considering the elite group Marudo is in Dainichi Old' Boys Club, it would be hard to see him having trouble getting help with Oyagoi...Marudo is a cool cat, met him here in the states...

[MikeM]

But, no matter how good the fish may look, it is a question of the traits passed on to the offspring. Even the most elite breeders have many poor matches in their memory. Add to that the economics. It is not enough that a match produces some really good offspring. It has to produce a sufficient volume of really good offspring to produce a profit. It's a tough way to support a family.