seminar topic choices

[schildkoi]

Quote: However, there are many people other than Steve who buy tosai with the hopes of a getting a koi that will develop into an adult and maintain the characteristics of its type. Is that an unworthy goal? Is it an impossible goal?

Carl,
Impossible? No. Extremely unlikely....about as unlikely as winning the lottery. Hoping to win is one thing...giving people expectations in doing so is another.

There is water right here Carl...come on...take a sip.

Steve

[Dan Blatt]

Mike....you asked...

"I also noticed that the first two comparison photos had some text at the bottom. The first says "Japan, Oct '04 and the second says, I believe, March or April '05. This sounds like a fish that was selected from a "very high class" group IN JAPAN and then, was it kept there for a season, as your two posts imply that it "finally arrived" home the next fall?"

If you look at caption under 1st set of photos it reads Japan Oct/2004 under the first photo of the pair, and second photo's caption reads U.S.A. 12/2004. Second set of photos are spring....March and April under the respective photos I believe without looking again 2005. This particular koi arrived back here November 2004, in between photo dates in 1st set of pictures. I took all the photos except the very first one. So to answer your question, no it was not selected from a high class group and kept in Japan for another year.
Just one of Ooyama's tashita's I guess.

[Dan Blatt]

Also Dan, can we get a purchase price?


JR....I never kiss and tell...lol.

[Dan Blatt]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR "However, there are many people other than Steve who buy tosai with the hopes of a getting a koi that will develop into an adult and maintain the characteristics of its type." what does this mean? JR

I'm assuming it means people buy a tosai with the hope of having a nice (not GC) representative of that particular variety such as sanke, showa, shiro or whatever it may be in their pond as a larger koi.
I think the disparity in this discussion centers on this point. Most if not all in this hobby are not expecting to get a GC or even a young GC (maybe baby....hey wasn't that a catchy tune way back then..lol))....but just a good representation of a particular koi. I think that goes for newbies as well as those who have been around for awhile, including those showing koi. JMHO.

and JR....you said...

If YOU are suggesting that a first year hobbyist is going to pick a GC from the end of this process, I do have a bridge for sale. If you think that an EBAY outlet will be a place to find that future CC, I have an 'invisible bridge' I'd like to sell you! Life is way too short for such wishing.
We have a saying on Wall Street, " the race is not 'always' won by the swift and the strong--- but--- that is the way to bet"

No one here is saying that. Apparently that is a figment of someone's imagination.

[Dan Blatt]

Do have some photos of another one, but not recent. Oomo showa I won on an NI Board contest couple years ago. This probably is a good example of a tosai most would avoid because of the abundance of hi on the head area. No future for sure.

[Dan Blatt]

Steve ...you said

Dan, I am happy that your 4 or 5 out of 15 Tosai are far from "finished".

This is what I did say......

Funny I have 4 or 5 koi out of my 15 that I selected as tosai and they are far from finished. Another one that I won (NI Board), a Oomo showa that I did not select, I was just lucky.

....4 or 5 out of my 15 that were selected as tosai.....the rest of the 15 were selected as older koi. Just wanted to clear that up. Makes a difference....4 or 5 out of 15 is approximately 33%........4 or 5 out of 4 or 5 is approcximately 100%.

[Dan Blatt]

Oh and last but not least....Steve you said....


Dan, I never said that the Tosais selected are "worthless". Please quit making fakse assumptions or I'll have to reach through and smack ya upside the head.

You did however say in an earlier post........

Let's use this comparison. Tosai are to Koi as rock bottom ponds are to Koi ponds.

Well we all know well your thoughts on rock bottom ponds......guess it just a matter of sematics huh?

Have you got one of those reach out and slap ya up along side the head cams yet? LOL

[dick benbow]

for some additional info about Chai, I have written him about his speaking
calendar.

[JasPR]

Thanks Dan, but back on subject, can you snap a shot for tomorrow so we can see the sex and advancement of that tosai that began our conversation? How large is it at 40 months? JR

[JasPR]

While we wait for Dan to get the picture up maybe we talk about how we all used to look at koi, koi growth and koi age and how we look at it now that we have all been exposed to good koi for a few decades now--

We used to see baby koi as just 'little' koi and adult koi are just larger versions of the 'little ones'. The best fish were the most brightly colored ones and all unfinished fish were looked at tategoi. So it was natural to look at babies and contemplate what they would look like as they got bigger and the 'fuzzy areas' filled in. And if they were very brightly colored as babies then they would likely look like the grand champions in the magazines when they got bigger.

Today we know that koi come in grades. The beginner might hear the terms ' tategoi and tateshita'. This also deceives however as it suggests that fish fall on either side of an imaginary line as fish get bigger.

In truth, all koi have a moment in the sun where they will never look better. Some fish finish as youngsters and others take 8 years to complete the look the former took only 10 months of life to achieve.
All koi are therefore the 'cut flower' that grew to a bloom and at some point in time begins to wilt and fade.
This is why each koi should be looked at for what it is and also for the what it offers in way of satifying the plan the pond owner has for it. For showing some koi are best competitors at age one. Others should not be at a show for many years. These legendary koi called tategoi, 'suffer' from a form of arrested development and will not show their best until they are full adults and all the elements of quality have had an opportunity to bloom. This is the opposite of hot highly colorful and well patterned male fish that typically are killer show fish until age 3 or so.

I posted this graph on KS under ' so you want to be a koi judge' to show how the shifting focus of show fish moves based on age, sex and size. If you can get familiar with this concept you are not likely to look at tosai the same again. And the notion of linear development will leave your mind's eye. - JR