High pH water source JR?

[bardies]

I suspect that the KH is because I put in baking soda. The pond pH was measuring under 8 in the mornings and then 9 at night. I have been bitten by the swing previously and did not to repeat that - also, I read that the buffer might also act to hinder the rise - so a two way chemical reaction. The KH didnt seem to be poor previously (but I was using crappy 25 sec test strips - hadnt broken out the AP test yet), but no where did I see anything about over doing baking soda....and I had only added about a cup or so to 600 gallons.

I am wondering if I cant get a read out from the city. Surely they would have a chemical analysis of their water. I've gone online for water testing and it seems as they all focus on pesticides and other garbage that people will be buying bottled water for - not focusing on heavy metals that would cause issues for fish. Would that be something I specifiy? I can only get results for things they look for, know what I mean?

I've got an old 100 gallon tub we used as a winter grower (worked well!) last year. I think that once I get the bottom drain resealed, it will work great as a mixing tub.

One question though, I realize that I will be chemically messing with the water (but its not like that hasnt happened already at the water company) and although I will be adding a more acceptable product to the pond....will I see buffer problems? I read about folks adding stuff (directly - of course) and adding stuff but not seeing any results as the buffer is 'working', then at the next dosage of stuff, seeing a crash because they used up all of the buffer.

I am hoping that in this case, I will be adding water at acceptable pH levels (or actually, a bit higher - to start off with) that would eventually dilute the original pond water and, over time, cause the over all pond pH to drop to the level of what I am adding. Then, for each water replacement, the water would be pretreated before added to the pond, and there should be no pH change.

I've got hydrochloric acid, I've read is the same as muriatic acid, but that is only the active ingredient. The stuff is designed to clean pool walls. Could any of the 'inactive' ingredients hurt the fish?

[bardies]

So thats what that thing was!
I see a plug, and some air tubing...but what is that thing in the middle? Also looks like kanji on the side - was the photo taken at a Japanese breeder?

Kim

[PapaBear]

I just got off the phone with the OSU Extension Service and I think your best bet is to get in touch with them at your local County Courthouse.
You can take them a water sample to test and for the paltry sum of $12 they will run an "Irrigation Test" that gives details on Sodium, CaCl, Sulfur, Total Alkalinity, CO3, Nitrate, free Nitrogen, Magnesium, ad-infinitum....
The local agent was surprised to hear you couldn't get that from the local Municipal Water Dept., but at least you have an inexpensive way to get a good analysis done locally.

[bekko]

You didn't tell us the whole stopry. Your pH was 9 because you have green water or a lot of plants in the pond. Photosynthesis removes carbon dioxide (a weak acid) during the day and makes the pH rise. A morning pH of 8 is OK. You do not need the baking soda either.

-stev

[bardies]

I wish that were true...we do have some plants, though. Water is not green, although not crystal clear either - but more on the clear side than not. We have about 30 percent coverage with water hyacinth, but these are not happy plants! Pretty much dead and dying and only left there because we dont have the heart to completey remove fish cover and also in hopes that the decaying matter might help in the pH arena. I tell you, they were flurishing at one point. I suspect that we were living off of rain water for a while, and only within the last 3 or so weeks have we had to resort to the hose for a water supply - and that water is definitly running at pH 9.2 or so. I also checked the KH and GH of the tap. KH is zero (or practically - turned after one drop) and GH is high 14 drops x 17.9. So 250. (The pond water is nearly as hard - at 212. I talked to the city water guy and he says that they are softening the water from 450 or so. Not sure what a good range of hardness for koi is, but likely the next thing to work on.

I've check on line for water softener pillows - but that seems oriented towards aquarium use. Besides spending a couple thousand for a household softener...what do you folks do for ponds?

[MikeM]

??? Something strange happening. Water hyacinth do fine around here in ponds with hardness of 350ppm and pH of 8.5.

Is the pond just 600 gals.? If so, a comparatively low cost RO unit could be used. The amount of waste water would not be too great & can be used for other purposes. Got a dog to wash? You may want to wait until after you get the chemical analysis. The Ag analysis will be better suited for your purpose than drinking water analysis. For drinking water the levels of various compounds acceptable for human consumption are quite higher than what is appropriate for koi, especially among the metals. Pay particular attention to copper & zinc levels. Water hyacinth don't like either one in excess... and not good for koi. The hyacinth also dislike salt.

[bardies]

The salt level is at .01ppt, I wouldnt have thought that that would be enough to hurt the plants, but could be wrong. I was pointed to a website that has water analysis results...for copper, free, it was .02 MG/L and zinc was 5 MG/L. Couldnt find phosphate on it though. We are about to begin to build a pond in the garage. It will hold about 1900 gallons - so certainly larger than the current pond. But still might have to consider a RO system. Think that that would be the silver bullet for all of my water woes?

[PapaBear]

It seems odd that the Water Hyacinth are suffering. That level of salt is low by Oklahoma standards so that can't be it. Just about everyone I know who has water hyacinth this year is having trouble keeping them in check, including us. My wife insists on them (so I get to spend extra time cleaning out the strainer), but we went from having only five small ones in the spring to giving away over 100 and dumping many hundreds more in the compost. And they are HUGE and healthy.
A modest RO unit might be the answer, but do a little investigating with some of the locals first. I haven't had any luck getting in touch with some of the other club members (last minute vacations and a holiday weekend...) but I bet a good solution is waiting around the corner.
BTW, the next meeting of the Club is in Norman on the 14th if you'd like to come. Just drop me a PM and I'll give you directions.
BTW, our gh typically runs around 250 - 300

Larry

[bardies]

I know the feeling re the hyacinths, we started with 3 about 2 months ago. Oh, more of the rest of the story. Ponds been here. Had comets in it. Got rid of them. Bleached everything. Many many rinses. Filled the pond and was adding ammonia to it for about 6 to 8 weeks. Not sure how DH did in maintaining the ammonia flow while I was gone. But by the time I returned from a working trip, middle of Aug - the pond was more than half full of the plants. DH had put in two small koi a few days previous and they continued to be happy for about a week and a half. At that point, half of our WA fish came in and we added the 6 larger koi, salt and melafix to aid in transition, then regular water replacement (about 10 to 15 percent) with 'conditioned/dechlorinated' tap water to help the filters keep up with the new load (filters didnt seem to have any trouble!) and that's when the plants started dying, fish changing color, and general death and unhappiness, etc.... am interested in the meeting, dont know how to send a PM.

[bardies]

Oh and on the plants, we are running a little whiskey barrel thing, with half pool water (havent done a darn thing with it chemically since we got here in late may) - that has a great pH, and half pond water. We've got the best surviving plants in there...just in case they might make it.
Kim