Ochiba Prognostications

[PapaBear]

This is one of our new kids on the block. A very heavily patterned Ochiba with good growth thusfar. 6" long at 3 months old. I'd like a little feedback on Ochiba development tendencies.
Does the "big fish pattern" rule we apply to Kohaku and Sanke hold true for Ochiba as well, or do they tend to spread out and remain pattern heavy?

[Brutuscz]

A picture is worth a thousand words. This is my Ochiba from Sakai(H). On the left...4inches at the begining of last season. On the right, 13inches last week. Look how the brown has spread so heavily.

[PapaBear]

Interesting changes. Not only has the brown gone from tea color to almost brick red, it even has two-tone motoguro. Have you had the same experience with others spreading that way?

[MikeM]

Ochiba Shigure today is not genetically pure. It is always difficult to make general statements about koi development. It becomes more difficult when the genetics are being re-mixed by different breeders in different ways. I think you just have to enjoy the adventure.

[dick benbow]

It's one of those color varieties, you pays your monet and takes your chances. That's why the first one i ever got was just last year.

[Brutuscz]

Quote: Originally Posted by PapaBear Interesting changes. Not only has the brown gone from tea color to almost brick red, it even has two-tone motoguro. Have you had the same experience with others spreading that way?

Well..I find sumi does well in my water, but nothing quite like this. I sometimes think it is the black liner as a backround. This koi developed in a very interesting way..the tips of each brown scale is a darker shade. It really is wild to see in person...and it was very unexpected. It just shows you how the look of some koi can really change dramatically.

[PapaBear]

Thanks guys.
So much to learn, so many Koi to learn from

[Brutuscz]

You know...when I look at the pics from the all japan show in nichirin, I noticed many ochiba's were very heavy on the brown. Not that many had a classic kohaku pattern.

[RayJordan]

Mike and Dick are correct about ochibas.

The orginal Ochibas had a less refined pattern mostly from Shusui. You can still see a lot of the orginal type in the doitsu versions today. More recent crossing with kohaku has produced a "modern" version of ochiba with a more kohaku like stepped pattern. However it is very dificult to predict how they will develop as babies. Often the "brown" pattern will expand just like the red tends to expand on a shusui. With others with more of the kohaku influence with see the "brown" contract. Look for clues of the genetics of your prospective purchases from the type of pattern - lateral or dorsal stepped.

Still with a mixed unstable variety like ochibas remember what Forrest Gump would say "Kinda like a box of chocolates - you never know what you are gonna get."

[PapaBear]

It is really kind of funny when you think about it.
Ochiba are generally considered a more "primitive" variety from Chagoi/Soragoi stock, but with the passing of time and different variant strains being introduced they are taking on the unpredictability of Kumonryu... "What's it gonna look like next week..."
It will be a lot of fun to watch won't it
BTW, the mother is Goshiki Kin Aka Bekko, and the father is either Kohaku or Shiro Bekko. THAT should add to the confusion now shouldn't it