Blogs FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
 


Welcome to Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine
Go Back   Koi Forum - Koi-Bito Magazine > Hobbyist Koi Forums > General Koi Forum

General Koi Forum The main koi forum. Most posts should be made here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes

Old 10-02-2007   #31 (permalink)
Daihonmei
 
aquitori's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: DA 408
Posts: 7,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
well, let put some numbers out for a simple math. buy a $5k fish in japan. pay $1k for commission on top of shipping. gotta be koikichi to do that. there speculation that sakai auction fish will fetch 15k to 20k each. add 20% commission and shipping to that.... gotta be super koikichi to do that.

Steve
The string:

1.Dealer.
2.Broker.
3.Shipping Agent.
4.Breeder.

In this list everyone makes money off you. To put things in perspective, atleast you see the line of exchange(well some of it).
aquitori is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007   #32 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
Nancy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lakewood, So Calif
Posts: 2,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
well, let put some numbers out for a simple math. buy a $5k fish in japan. pay $1k for commission on top of shipping. gotta be koikichi to do that. there speculation that sakai auction fish will fetch 15k to 20k each. add 20% commission and shipping to that.... gotta be super koikichi to do that.

Steve
Awe Steve, I dont think you get it... Anyone willing to spend for husband/wife to go to Japan, around $4000 just for travel and hotels, are already kichi, and are going there to buy a High quality koi.. If they just wanted a nice koi, they could go to there local dealer, for that and spend alot less, if you add up the total expense of a trip plus fish.
Nancy M. is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007   #33 (permalink)
Honmei
 
dinh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Does it matter where u live?
Posts: 2,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
well, let put some numbers out for a simple math. buy a $5k fish in japan. pay $1k for commission on top of shipping. gotta be koikichi to do that. there speculation that sakai auction fish will fetch 15k to 20k each. add 20% commission and shipping to that.... gotta be super koikichi to do that.

Steve
Oh Steve, you guys are so lucky for adding commission and shiping without including an adidtional import tax..... Some does....;-))

Last edited by dinh; 10-02-2007 at 08:17 AM..
dinh is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007   #34 (permalink)
Jumbo
 
Steve Nguyen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 994
you actually think it's about get it or don't get it. what's there not to get out of this elementary discussion??? some people just accept whatever comes their way and say it's good while others state opinions what they don't like. I think you just don't get that.

Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy M. View Post
Awe Steve, I dont think you get it... Anyone willing to spend for husband/wife to go to Japan, around $4000 just for travel and hotels, are already kichi, and are going there to buy a High quality koi.. If they just wanted a nice koi, they could go to there local dealer, for that and spend alot less, if you add up the total expense of a trip plus fish.
Steve Nguyen is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007   #35 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
Nancy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lakewood, So Calif
Posts: 2,163
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
you actually think it's about get it or don't get it. what's there not to get out of this elementary discussion??? some people just accept whatever comes their way and say it's good while others state opinions what they don't like. I think you just don't get that.

Steve
As you said, what's there to get.. Breeders, dealers, shippers, airlines, brookers, are all just trying to make a living... what happens if cisco says they dont need your service?? Hard to make a living, without all the different elements.

There is a chain of employee's or customers in any market, in which all bussiness's need to keep bussiness going.. No one ever said this hobby was cheap.
Nancy M. is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007   #36 (permalink)
Daihonmei
 
MikeM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 5,212
I find this discussion of charges rather silly. If the service provided is not worth the cost, find another service provider or do it yourself. It's a competitive world. I've had more than one prospective client tell me that my hourly rate was too high. My reply has been that I charge a ludicrous amount per hour. But, folks pay it and I work more than I'd prefer. So, I'm not charging less. I volunteer to recommend others who will charge less. Some decide to pay what I charge. Some prefer to use the services of others. I don't want to work for someone who does not think the charges are worth the service they receive. They will not be happy, and I will not enjoy the work performed for them. I expect it is much the same with dealers serving the customized goals of individual hobbyists. Indeed, I think it must be quite unpleasant to spend 4 or 5 days in Japan with a customer who does not think the dealer's services are worth the cost. It would take great will power to get through such a trip with a courteous demeanor intact.
MikeM is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007   #37 (permalink)
Honmei
 
KoiCop's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,675
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeM View Post
I find this discussion of charges rather silly. If the service provided is not worth the cost, find another service provider or do it yourself.
Agreed.

Isn't it funny how many people who do not work in the high-end service field think that they can comparison shop providers and services like they would butchers for hamburger, hotels for roomrates or airlines for ticket prices.

To me, using a PriceLine.com approach to booking a Japanese Koi buying trip is only slightly less ludicrous than bragging about the money one saved by hiring a discount divorce attorney -- which I've always thought was the ultimate in penny wise/pound foolish.
KoiCop is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007   #38 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,907
Misunderstanding the relationships.

A dealer who runs junkets to Japan is both an advisor and a sales rep. meaning they will advise a customer within certain parameters regarding the sale. And dealers can be paid many different ways- a straight commission, a hidden commission and even credit on inventory against the fish the dealer will buy and bring home. The commissions vary from as low as 15% to as high as 40%. And often the commission can be collected on both sides- 15% from the customer and a 15% discount from the breeder. You must remember that you, as a customer, are a fleeting event. But the business and the relationship between breeder and dealer is an enduring relationship. So at the end of the day, the dealer is a sales rep for that breeder. And it is unrealistic to think that a customer is the first priority. Or that the customer will ever really know the true markup or cc. It's best just to focus on the fish in the bowl and if it is worth the final total cost or not.
Another profit center for instance will be growing costs which a breeder may or may not charge for the first or even second year. The dealer will charge a fee for that service and charge what appears to be a reduced percentage commission charge because he is making it on growing fees.
I have one friend who was paying a breeder directly ( unbeknownst to the dealer) for growing fees after finding that the past growing fees were not being passed onto the breeder from the dealer. The dealer then presented a bill to the customer for owned growing fees and said if the customer did not pay, the breeder would sell his fish! The dealer was a lovely deep beni color when he was told the facts ! JR
JasPR is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007   #39 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Nguyen View Post
well, let put some numbers out for a simple math. buy a $5k fish in japan. pay $1k for commission on top of shipping. gotta be koikichi to do that. there speculation that sakai auction fish will fetch 15k to 20k each. add 20% commission and shipping to that.... gotta be super koikichi to do that.

Steve
Dick has already given one example of the value of a dealer's commission. I'll give some more. Does Sakai take you to lunch and sit down with you to discuss koi when you participate in his auction? Does Saito take you to dinner or sit around at Nomoles discussing koi? How About bowling with Ishihara (Yagenji)? Do the breeders come to stay at your home or even make it a point to spend some time wqith you when they visit the states when you buy from an auction?

I have been fortunate to have all of those experiences....experiences (where I have learned soooooo much) that NEVER would have happened without the dealer...ya know, the guy I gladly pay the 20% commission to.

Steve
__________________
The views presented are my personal views and not that of any organization that I may belong to unless otherwise specified. schildkoi@aol.com
CKHPA
schildkoi is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2007   #40 (permalink)
Oyagoi
 
Nancy M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lakewood, So Calif
Posts: 2,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by schildkoi View Post
Dick has already given one example of the value of a dealer's commission. I'll give some more. Does Sakai take you to lunch and sit down with you to discuss koi when you participate in his auction? Does Saito take you to dinner or sit around at Nomoles discussing koi? How About bowling with Ishihara (Yagenji)? Do the breeders come to stay at your home or even make it a point to spend some time wqith you when they visit the states when you buy from an auction?

I have been fortunate to have all of those experiences....experiences (where I have learned soooooo much) that NEVER would have happened without the dealer...ya know, the guy I gladly pay the 20% commission to.

Steve
BINGO!!! Steve
Nancy M. is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Reddit!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




©2008 Koi-Bito Magazine