metallic ochiba

[JasPR]

well when I say segragate I mean segragate! The wild carp of the Eastern European rivers breed at different times and in different areas. There can be a tag-along feral domestic but there is never a tag-along common among the feral domestic schools.
The feral domestics tend to breed anywhere and in a broader time period. The true wild stock is very attuned to nature, rain, flooding grass lands etc.

[MikeM]

Yes, I can readily understand this occurring. The wild varieties (more nearly true varieties from an ichthyological perspective) will have adapted to the food supply, seasonal differences, etc of the habitat, each variety filling a particular niche, not unlike the mbuna of the rift lakes in Africa. The feral domestic carp, being a mix of genetics and not having been 'culled' by Nature through the 100-year and thousand-year extremes of the locale, nor the cataclysmic events natural to the locale at some periodic rate, will swarm in all habitable areas until a 'culling' event occurs.

The fascinating thing to me is that the mixing of genetics and the human culling process has resulted in such a wide variation of body structures, scalation, pigmentation, etc. And, all of it still shows up in the culls of even refined nishikigoi lines to one extent or another. So much for the breeding art to work with.

[JasPR]

Mike, as you know, I breed livebearers. I have a cross going now with ten generation plus liberty mollies ( gold edged tail and dorsal fins and solid black bodies). The cross involves black sailfins ( to try and get some size back in the males) X my best colored liberties ( black as coal with bright orange yellow 'flags). I can tell at four weeks which will have the sailfin body type which is thicker in the peduncle area and a longer fish in general. It's not hard to see after you have taken some time to study them and adjusted your eye.
I think the genetics pops up in koi all the time- the old Japanese body type, the domestic food fish body type and a myriad of combinations of these two. JR

[schildkoi]

JR, we agree!

Well, not really, but I do agree with the quote you gave:

Quote: I'll leave you with this quote from the very knowledgable Satoru Hoshino : " I think it is very embarrassing that the koi's roots are unknown, and names are yet to be given properly."

He makes my point for me (at least about the naming). Judging classifications are a tad different than pure geneology...especially about a judging class that is for "all others" when a koi does "fit" into another class.

Your buddy,
Clarence D.

[l113892]

A month ago I witnessed the draining of a pond for future use as a koi pond. Other than some bass, the pond contained two grass carp and one koi. The two grass carp swam together, the many bass schooled together, multiple schools, and the lone koi swam by herself, looking uneasy the entire time. When the lone koi was collected, she was ripe with ulcers. I've always heard you should always have a minimum of two koi together in a body of water.

[HEADACHE6]

Those grass Carp are some ugly SOB's !