How do you base your koi food buys?

[dick benbow]

glad you will be around and contributing. One thing you need to do is to keep folks like myself remembering from wence we came, and that we all came up thru the same wrungs of the ladder in our advancement. To forget from where we came is to miss the focus of where we're going.

In the wisdom of the past comes the reasoning of why God gave us two eyes and two ears and only one mouth...( hey there coachy olde boy, if that's true why did he gives us two hands for the key board! )

[PapaBear]

All things being equal I'd much rather pay $1/lb than $10, but all things are rarely equal.
When I make Koi food decisions it begins and ends with the ingredients, and price determines the winner among "true" equals. If the ingredients don't pass muster, they never get on the list of contenders.
It is amazing how much of a difference there can be from one brand to the next, so for me value matters. If I can get 35-40% protein, with a healthy ingredient list, proper amino acid profile, etc... for a good price I don't really care whose name is on the bag. I do care about how well my fish accept it and how it effects their health, growth, and color
Before I knew any better I fed Catfish Chow. I didn't know Koi can't digest Corn or that it would yellow their shiroji. After a while I DID notice that the bottom of the pond and the filters were full of itty bitty cornmeal mush turds and my Koi didn't grow very well. It was dirt cheap, but the results were an overloaded biofilter, a mess to clean up, and poor performance. The low price did not add up to "Value".
Value in Koi food is kind of like Ray Jordans "Koi Value" equation. Do you pay $10 per fish to enjoy for 1 year before they go to pot and lose their beauty, or do you buy more expensive Koi that give you greater pleasure for many years?
The same is true for feed in my book. Food that improves health, growth, and vitality for the long haul has more value than a dollar saved but zero return on your investment beyond keeping them alive.
Looking at any ingredient list with scrutiny has a purpose. Lists that include details as to the grain type, veggie type, animal protein type, etc... are meaningful. An ingredient list that uses generic terms like "animal protein", "animal fats", "cereal grains", "meat byproducts" are too generic to give you an accurate picture. Those generic terms usually mean that whatever is cheapest at any given moment is used to manufacture the feed that day. Cheapest doesn't mean it is good or bad, only that it is cheap and available.
I mentioned earlier that I'm using Mazuri Platinum Wheat nuggets as we move toward winter.
I chose it because it is available locally, has a good ingredient list, and a healthy amino acid profile, and it is not expensive. Mazuri also makes other Koi food with a higher protein content, but I won't use them. Why??? Because the higher protein comes from Corn instead of wheat. Protein that my fish can't utilize has no value, so the higher protein content on paper does not add up to higher digestible protein for my Koi. They get more value from 32% wheat base feed than from 38% corn base feed, and I spend less time cleaning cornmeal mush from my filter chambers..

[Steve Nguyen]

Quote: Originally Posted by Cooter snipped........There seems to be some nice people here.

totally agreed. there are most nice people here. it's like a big family here and you know how that goes.

Steve

[bekko]

Quote: An ingredient list that uses generic terms like "animal protein", "animal fats", "cereal grains", "meat byproducts" are too generic to give you an accurate picture.

I agree Larry. However, I do not think the manufacturer is trying to be cagey with the vague ingredient list. They are using a least cost formulation process where the ingredients are changed often based on the current price of the commodities. There is software which lets them put together a formulation that hits the target protein, fat, and ash content with the lowest ingredient cost based on the commodity prces for that week. If they were more specific about the ingredients then they would have to reprint the labels for every batch. Still, we would rather buy from a manufacturer who is looking for the best ingredients rather than the cheapest ingredients - if we can afford it.

Quote: Two and 1/2 months later, I notice that there are many small tiny insects moving around in the container with pellets.

Bugs are not a good sign, but it is not as bad as finding greenish mold around the bottom of the container. The mold can be a sign of aflatoxins which is a potent poison. The smell will also provide valuable information. You can smell the difference when the fats start to become rancid. Rancid fats lead to steatitis which can cause a fish to be bloated. Steatitis can be fatal as the visceral fat deposits constrict organ function. Part of the role of the heavy vitamin content of good food is to be sacrificial oxidants which prevent the onset of rancidity. The less time you store food the better. But, 2.5 months is not that bad if the food was fresh when purchased. At 4 to 6 months you are asking for trouble.

By the way, you cannot judge a feed by the protein content. Any manufacturer can create a 40% protein feed out of junk ingredients. The most meaningful information is the amino acid profile of the ingredients. If the protein sources do not provide the proper quantity and ratios of the various essential amino acids, then the protine cannot be efficiently used for growth and repair. Most feeds have way more protein than is needed for growth and repair and the excess is used for energy. Better to have lower concentrations of higher quality protein and use carbohydrates for energy.

-steve

[Auntiesue]

Since we are all here to learn, what would be a good amino acid profile? What should be look for when we are trying to make sure there are enough carbs in the diet?

[aquitori]

Here's an article in Rinko...Page 1 and 2

[aquitori]

Pages 3 and 4...of the article.

[aquitori]

Pages 5 and 6 of the article...good reading..

[Auntiesue]

Thank You!!!

[jnorth]

Check out 3 of these 4 threads by Chris Neaves. Lots of good info on koi food.

http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/search.php?searchid=94674