For Dick....Quality koi Goshiki

[CarolinaGirl]

Dick, how does the white on yours look....as compared to a kohaku? On this one, when it is in the pond with kohakus you can tell the white has a faint grayish cast to it.

[dick benbow]

as i was saying there is no indication of sumi on mine.....yet

as some of the other's have stated and are unfortunately correct, the beni
is on the way out.

You'll be surprised what it looks like when red is gone. there is the sumi and it is kinda shaded looking and all the koi kichi's that come to your pond will squint and scratch their heads trying to figure out what color variety of koi that is and what it will look like when it finishes. I saw one this weekend and they thought they had me on what had happened.

I hope you'll not feel uncomfortable about this koi as if maybe you or the breeder did something wrong. Look at it as part of the investment in your education. Many serious show types will tell you this event, which happens with the best bloodlines and pond conditions is why they buy less koi and invest in a 2 year olds. Some of the koi kichi's I run with only consider 3 year olds for that reason.

But I'll still put on my seminars on Tosai selection, because there is value in learning from both failures and sucesses. Like the old expression says..."the harder you work at something the luckier you get ".....

My advice at this stage is for you to not push growth on this fish, allow it to experience winter and if at all possible to control the PH, pls try and keep this koi in the low 7's......(7.2-7.4)

[CarolinaGirl]

thanks for your insight Dick. I do realize there is a risk any time you buy young fish. for the most part, I have always been very satisified with Mat's fish and although this one is disapointing, I knew the risk when I bought it. No breeder can guarantee the outcome of a koi, especially a young one. I was hoping for a traditional looking goshiki, but if the beni all fades away, it may still be an interesting looking fish. I still rate Mat as my very favorite breeder and will buy more fish from him.

Keeping the koi in soft water with a low pH is not a problem at all for me. I struggle to get the pH up to 7.5 anyway....my tap water is 5.5 to 6.0. So we will continue to watch this one and see what he does over time. We are heading into winter now, the water is cooling off. Probably another 6 weeks of feeding and that will be it for them until early March.

[dick benbow]

My white is all white just like the rest of my gosanke's. This koi is the last remaining one of 6 that I got from Mat this spring. It was my selection from all the others as what I had room to keep. When I check for sumi activity I always look at the leading edge of beni in the sashi on the back to see if i can see a dark line. Mine just looks like a normal kohaku at this stage.

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by CarolinaGirl thanks for your insight Dick. I do realize there is a risk any time you buy young fish. for the most part, I have always been very satisified with Mat's fish and although this one is disapointing, I knew the risk when I bought it. No breeder can guarantee the outcome of a koi, especially a young one. I was hoping for a traditional looking goshiki, but if the beni all fades away, it may still be an interesting looking fish. I still rate Mat as my very favorite breeder and will buy more fish from him.

I am very glad you pointed this out. It important to remember that not all things are a given. I have had Koi go shiro muji that have had all the best signs for success.

[CarolinaGirl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Russell Peters I am very glad you pointed this out. It important to remember that not all things are a given. I have had Koi go shiro muji that have had all the best signs for success.

I would bet that most people who have kept koi for more than a few years has had the same thing happen. I know that the main reason that 2 and 3 year old koi cost so much more than tosai is not just because the breeder has fed them for an extra year, it is because the pattern has stayed stable or improved for those 2 or 3 years. Whenever a breeder chooses to hang onto a koi for another year or two he is taking a gamble. the koi MIGHT improve and he can sell it for a lot more money, or it might go shiro muji and be worthless. So tosai are a gamble for the breeder who keeps them and also the customer who buys them. In this case, I gambled and lost. Oh well...I have lots of really pretty koi that came from Mat as tosai that have gotten MUCH nicer....so I won on those!! Can't win 'em all!!

[dick benbow]

and that's a good Attitude to take with koi keeping "CarolinaGirl".....I've emailed Jim North a picture of the Goshiki I retained and asked a favor to have him downsize and post. I'm hopeful to see the initial indication of sumi to develop in the quiet, lower temps of winter.....

[CarolinaGirl]

thanks Dick...but that's really the only attitude a person can take and stay sane in this hobby.

[MikeM]

If you have extra room, you might to hold onto this one for a year or two after the Hi fades (assuming it all goes)... not that you will end up with a long term keeper. Rather, it will give you an opportunity to learn about the Sumi development on this line, which can be instructive when you get another. I had a Goshiki from Hiroi that went Shiromuji a number of years ago. I placed her in the lily pond for a year. The Sumi came up rather purplish... quite different. And then it faded, leaving a fish as white as snow with no yellow tones at all. As it went into a cool season, the Sumi began to rise again in a reticulated pattern, but only in certain areas, with other areas remaining free of markings. I did not get to see how she progressed, because some folks came by who thought she was beautiful. So, she got a new home ...much better than the little lily pond! As far as I know, she is still swimming, but I've not seen her in a couple of years. It was interesting to observe, although not worthwhile if space is at a premium.