keep or cull? Longfins.....

[CarolinaGirl]

I believe it was Blue Ridge that had the virus issues. Tarheels hasn't been around nearly as long as Blue Ridge. I am still so undecided about keeping longfins or not. I have a pair of longfin sanke that are really nice and big...but if I culled ALL my longfins I'd have more room for REAL koi!

[JosephandGabby]

I agree with KoiCop on this one. I like the first Matsuba best. We only have one longfin remaining in our Koi pond. My wife picked it at a Koi Show several months back. She let me spend a small fortune while we were there, so I figured I should at least take home the lone fish she really wanted. I didn't really care for it at first...but it's definitely grown on me since so I doubt we'll ever let her go now. I'm definitely in the minority here; however, because I actually like longfins. I've seen some longfin platinum ogons that were absolutely amazing...

[CarolinaGirl]

I just wanted to give ya'll a follow-up on these fish. I took the #2 matsuba to the charlotte koi show this past weekend and it won best longfin under 16". I was pretty shocked and very pleased! the other 2 will be culled in the spring, but this one will stick around for a little while.

[JasPR]

I like longfins as aquarium fish. And for years I had a 600 gallon aquarium in the kitchen wall that was stocked soley with solid colored longfins. I traded them out when they got to be over 12 inches. The black ones, yellow ones and silver ones looked very graceful when they were young.

The concerns I have stocking longfins will normal koi are many however. If you wish to develop your eye, I think a love of longfins holds you back.
I also think that a pond of mixed 'species' like longfins and nishikigoi is very distracting and the harmony of the pond is somehow upset as a living picture. It may be the way the longfins have to swim ( movement) as much as the look of them?
Of biggest concern , more for the hobby than the individual pond, is the cross breeding issue. Koi, specifically Nishikigoi has been a journey of separating out traits from common carp and mutations. It has been a long hard road and now we seem to be willing to contaminate that gene pool?
Certainly breeder take great care and study of potential brood stock. And the idea that they would accidently select a phenotype parent with genetic links to longfins is frightening. In effect, a phenotype for nishikigoi selected from longfins is a 'genetic poison' to the nishikigoi population. We have seen this problem in many breeding programs of other animals. In dogs, Cockerpoodles are popular pets but they really represent a regression in each breed. Dogs have papers and are somewhat protected at the show and breeding level as only papered dogs can compete and are used in breeding. But koi are not protected this way. So long fins will pop up more and more I suspect.

In short I'd prefer longfins be looked at as a separate breed like Shubunkin, wakins and comets are. Honestly I think they should be judged as those fish are also. But I digress. JR

[Bern]

My distaste for Longfins is proportionate to my love of Sushi.
Therein lays my answer.

Pass the soy sauce Jim.

rgds Bern

[CarolinaGirl]

Actually.....I have very little love for longfins anymore. I am culling almost all of them, and the ones I do have are confined to their own pond. I used to just adore them....but now they do not appeal to me as much. I have a nice pair of longfin sankes that I might hang on to, but the 1300 gallon tank they are in may be needed as a QT in the future (when I get my new pond and start showing larger fish) and when that happens, the longfins will all be culled. This little matsuba can hang around for a while....but I know the day will come when he has to go away too. I think little longfins are usually much more attractive than the larger ones. The big longfins usually do not have very attractive bodies.

Art spent some time tank-side explaining how they judge longfins and it was a great explanation. He said they first must meet the same standards expected of regular koi (skin quality, comformation, pattern, etc), but then must also have strong attractive that are carried well and are in proportion to the rest of the fish. Many longfins have fins that are weak and wispy looking, many have such large fins they can't even swim properly or hold the pec fins out. Fins such as those are not desirable. Art did a great job explaining why this fish (and also the GC longfin) placed as it did.

[JasPR]

Your jouney is like a lot of koi kichi, one day the light bulb just goes on and you see longfins differently.

Art is a great judge and an equally good teacher. And I also once felt the problem with longfins were they were such poor examples of nishikigoi varieties in color and pattern. I honestly don't think that way any more.
I think that the atmosphere/feeling of a longfin really requires them to have a standard based on their most prominate features- fins and body shape. And if I was creating a standard for judging I would start there. Just as TV ranchu and shubunkins have done- judge from the unique feature that makes them what they are.
I think it is pretty apparant at this point that a longfin in kohaku color is a pretty boring fish! Yet the black/crow longfin with flowing black fins is a very impressive creature. So the prejudice of the Nishikigoi judge will try and lean towards the kohaku as a 'better fish' but the lovers of longfins will see the flow and uniformity of the fins and favor the fish for what it is. In this regard longfins just seem to look better and not as busy when they are solid colors, two tone colors. I suspect this has to do with the interesting pattern ( the main focus on Nishikigoi) competing with the fins of the longfin.
At some point, I would predict that a small group of longfin nuts will start a longfin association and give the longfin the attention it requires to break out of the subset shadow of Japanese Nishikigoi. Maybe their own judges like the goldfish people have? JR

[CarolinaGirl]

There actually was one kohaku longfin at that show that was a stunning fish. She had a great body, great fins, great skin. Her problem was her beni is weak and starting to thin out in a couple places so she did not place well. The tancho kohaku that won longfin GC at that show was stunning as well....she was flawless (to use Art's words). I don't care for the crows in LF or in koi because they disappear in a pond. they do look nice in a show tank though.

[JasPR]

Well I'll give you another example then, the black and bonze kawari that we rarely see in nishikigoi shows because it is usually culled at the fry stage makes for a beautiful longfin. The mix of black and bronze in the two tones on the fins is a striking feature. Butt ugly however in a strong bodied, short finned nishikigoi.
I'll bet you that as you come along further you will see this difference in longfin appreciation and nishikigoi appreciation? JR

[lildude]

I like the first one for what everyone has already said.
Keep it in my book