Rank these Kohakus.

[dick benbow]

Hi Russ, just a quick note to thank-you profusely for sharing unselfishly what you have learned from toshio sakai.

My kohaku (matsunosuske bloodline) was selected because of skin and beni depth. She still has two full scales of sashi. I figure somewhere about 8 or 10 yrs she'll reach her stride. A long time to wait for something with such a pattern.

I teach it in my seminars, and apply it to my own selection process. Pattern,
what you can tell from a picture is the last thing to look at in the selection process. If you study national fish from the AJS, many had their periods of
slower growth and caught up at a later date. One sanke especially from Toshio that went on to take reserve at the national in the UK. It's japanese owner was really upset with Toshio because the fish did not grow at the pace of the other's when it was two and three. It caught up in the end.

Many of you have followed our progress at the olson's of a group of study koi from Toshio. Toshio, after reviewing the study pictures last week selected one of the koi as the best developed of the group. It was from the middle grade and the slowest grower.

[JasPR]

Russ, you are talking about size then? Koi are living things and they have stages of life. Juvenile means something, as does sub adult and sexually mature adult. As you know, I have been going to Sakai for lessons about his koi since 1994. And I think you are missing the point of what he's telling you. Juvenile koi can be held and have a slow growth year. The year of Sakai's nisai wipe out ( I think that was 1997 or 98) those tategoi were held in the field across the street and were large compared to the siblings in the back pond ( behind his old house). This was an example of the same stock being housed under very different conditions. On the other extreme are the jumbos and some are kept in the well supplied concrete pond and other special fish are sent down south for maximum grow with southern breeders like momotaro. That is where the sister of the GC over one meter went. So these are all examples of growth technique. But you can't change the aging process. Skin changes and colors mature. Shape is enhanced by gonad development and the same hormomes change skin texture. This is why age and size are important to price and a gauge as to how long a fish has to 'past sell date'.

JR

[Louie]

I like d & b its to bad they do not have the same background. Koi D In my opinon is the best because of the delicate pec`s , the white background ,good beni, good tail stock. I like the strightness of the dorsel and tail. I may be wrong but D is the younger of the two. My reason ? the size of the pec`s. D also has good adome.
Koi B has the pattern I prefer in a big fish. It also has good cofirmation but the pec`s are not as clear as D. It also has beni on the gill plates ? The left gill looks like it is sunk in slightly might just be the way pic was taken. As both fish reach their max growth Maki will be the determining factor. Thats the way I see it TODAY.
Louie

[aquitori]

Quote: Originally Posted by RookieKoiGuy Looks like a typical koi analysis.... everyone agrees to disagree on which is best !!! Especially when we dont know the sizes. I have bought koi from pictures before. I will never do it again without someone I know sending the pics. Tom

The sizes are in the range of 22-24" which would be size 5 in some koi shows.

Now with that tidbit of info does that change your ranking of the fish?

[ppp]

I think we'd have a different reaction if we were told that Koi B was 50cm as compared to, say, 85cm. A fair number of koi at 50cm have this kind of good body shape, but only a precious few of these actually reach 85cm AND yet maintaining its solid girth/length proportions. Thereby pricing IS affected. Just my 2c worth...

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori The sizes are in the range of 22-24" which would be size 5 in some koi shows. Now with that tidbit of info does that change your ranking of the fish?

No...............

[RookieKoiGuy]

Quote: Originally Posted by aquitori The sizes are in the range of 22-24" which would be size 5 in some koi shows. Now with that tidbit of info does that change your ranking of the fish?

A little change for me knowing the size.
From D B C F E A
To D B C E A F or B D C E A F
BD could go either way or DB

Have to see in them person,
Tom

[Eugeneg]

B and A seem to have that "football" shape and appear to be stunted. To me, D, E and F have the best potential for growth. While D, F and B seem to have the best Hi, the pic of E is not that good and I am assuming the quality of the beni is there as well. B's head seems to be a bit "pinched" at the nose. C and D have the best faces/heads for growth but C lacks the pattern for a large fish. D and F have the best "growth" patterns to support a bigger frame. We'll see what the experts have to say. That should be interesting!![/quote]
I am close to your thinking especially on B . It is impossible to choose by comparison from photos . It is even difficult to choose if you know the parantige and the fish . Nor does price make that much diffrence .
My ambassodar fish could have been perchased by anyone at the Orlando show for $350 a few years ago . She was bypassed by everyone and not wanted at that price . The reason being that she was not finished . Now just pulled out of my Mud pond at 4 years of age is close to 29in and by far the best fish . She is far superior to fish I paid 2 g each for and getting better .
The confirmation and skin Quality is improving . That is in a short Canadian growing season . Larger fish one needs to wait a few years for the smaller
ones will finish earlier or so I am finding .
Regards
Eugene