Hi Question

[evabug1]

Hi,

I have a Sanke (~12") and a Hi Showa (~10"). They started out 6-7" and have grown to their current size in 4 months. The hi on their heads has darkened up to a nice red color, but from their shoulder's on the hi is a more orangey red color. Is this normal? When could I expect the hi on their body to become a richer red color too? I was curious about whether the accelerated growth would effect the quality of coloring.

Thanx in advance!

[KoiCCAPW]

I'm no expert for sure, but I've heard that an orange/red color will last longer and is supposed to be more stable than the bright purple/crimson red on young fish.
The persimmon color deepens to more red as the koi gets several years older. As least that's the theory.

Maybe someone with more expertise than I will chime in here.

[l113892]

I have a crystal ball but it's not working today.

I was told once by a prominent US dealer that the body color would eventually match the head color. Actually he said that would happen in the course of 12 months. I have not found that to be the case. You are never going to have the same thickness of red on the body as you would have on the head. A picture might help. The body hi may be poor quality which again may never match the head hi.

[evabug1]

I really appreciate both of your input. I'm a novice myself. Unfortunately, I don't have a seine net yet to catch them. Perhaps the thicker skin on the head is why the hi darkened up there first? I will be patient and watch the hi develop as they age. It's fun seeing how much they've changed over the short time I've had them.

Thanks again!

[dick benbow]

the skin on the head appears the darkest because of the least amount of stretch from growth. Shoulder Hi can be really lightened. Make your assessment in the spring after the red has had a chance to recover from growth.

[Lam Nguyen]

Hi Dick, correct me if I am wrong, but I have heard from several sources that the water quality here in the Northwest is better for showa and sanke than for kohaku. The rationale being that the water is harder here than in other regions and is therefore not suitable for hi development. Furthermore, I heard that kohaku tend to develop shimi over time. Is this true? If so, then are hi & shimi development only dependent on water quality, or does weather and/or food also affect it?

[koiczar]

My understanding of the difference between color on the head and body is this: The hi or sumi or white (shiroji) on a fishes head only need penetrate a couple layers of "skin" to show it off. Therefore it comes through in a deeper color base. The colors on the body must come through the scales of the fish from below (dermis). It is true that on younger fish, the color will look out of balance with that on the head for these reasons. As long as you can see that the center of the scales within each hi pattern area are darker than the surrounding part of each scale, then the fish will continue to develop a deeper richer color in the future. This is also a good way to tell if the hi is elastic enough to stretch as the fish grows quickly. If it isn't "elastic" usually you will see it begin to break apart, especially, as Dick mentioned, around the shoulder area as this area expands more than any other area.

Mike

[Sangreaal]

I've noticed on my own fish that those that were busy growing themselves out in length and/or girth during their first year, lightened up as their skin stretched to accomodate their growth spurt. When fall and then winter came and the water cooled way down, the reds and whites of the kohakus that had lightened up in summer just popped with brilliance and matched the beni of their heads.

As Mike mentioned, that darker bud of beni at the base of each scale is what to look for in assessing quality and whether the beni will darken or lighten over time, not the overall hue of the beni on a young fish in a growth spurt.

Just a thought and hope it helps,
Marie

[evabug1]

You've all given me lots of food for thought. I will take a closer look at the center of the scales. Thanks for the gracious help everyone!!

[weesec01]

Quote: Originally Posted by koiczar My understanding of the difference between color on the head and body is this: The hi or sumi or white (shiroji) on a fishes head only need penetrate a couple layers of "skin" to show it off. Therefore it comes through in a deeper color base. The colors on the body must come through the scales of the fish from below (dermis). It is true that on younger fish, the color will look out of balance with that on the head for these reasons. As long as you can see that the center of the scales within each hi pattern area are darker than the surrounding part of each scale, then the fish will continue to develop a deeper richer color in the future. This is also a good way to tell if the hi is elastic enough to stretch as the fish grows quickly. If it isn't "elastic" usually you will see it begin to break apart, especially, as Dick mentioned, around the shoulder area as this area expands more than any other area. Mike

I hope this picture can help to elaborate more....