Judging Pearl Gin

[Sangreaal]

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Good morning Marie. judging ginrin from pictures is always difficult. So please correct me if I've misread or misjudged. The picture you seem to be calling matsunosuke gin is betagin? Matsunosuke gin is an accent stripe or two non symmetrical markings on silkened skin and usually includes fukurin at points/areas of the body. Matsunosuke gin does not qualify a fish to be entered as ginrin, even though technically it is a betagin ( covering the whole scale , flush to the surface and intense but 'non showy'). Tamagin is 'pearl' in that it is like a neckless but it also is isolated to the center or edge of the scale and raised slightly. The old tamagin was actually circular but that is not seen any more even by the original breeder. That line burnt out some years ago and is now being revived but the gin is now isolated to the scale edge and much more like betagin that is restricted to the edge of the scale. Here is a picture from Nichirin, the ZNA member's magazine, that shows a modern version of tamagin. Best, JR

Just simply fascinating, JR! And a great representative pic, too--much nicer pearls than I have here. So the ginrin on the fish I've posted is betagin rather than Matsunosuke and pearl gin is related then to betagin?

*nodnodnod*

The original lineage of my fish is a Dainichi line from some 15 years ago. Not outcrossed to my knowledge and 3rd generation removed from the original Dainichi oyagoi. How would Dainichi blood relate to betagin or pearl gin? I really need to study more breeders and their history...





I'm still confused as to what class any of these fish should be entered in if they were taken to show. It seems so borderline...

M

[JasPR]

Marie, fortunately in the USA you will likely have a choice as to where you want your fish entered- ginrin A or gosanke classes. In a Japanese or ZNA show this decision would be made for you! In that case they will count the rows of ginrin ( at least three either side of fish) and direct the fish to ginrin A or kohaku. But honestly I have seen a lot of tamagin in two rows each side of the body that seem to be an exception to this rule at benching time. Your now 'not matsunoske gin' is best as a ginrin competitor and your tamagin can be entered as either. But I suspect it is a better kohaku than a tamagin. Now having said that, judges can be 'lovers' of the rare tamagin and it might just carry the day?! This is the fun and excitment of the competition!

On your 'matsunosku', yes, that is betagin, nice and subtle and preferred to daiyagin ( hiroshima Gachagin or cracked glass gin) but both are special on the right fish. My preference is to see betagin like yours on gosanke as it is a lovely effect and doesn't destroy a gosanke's beni color tones if the quality of the beni is also high. And I like daiyagin on solid fish, especially black fish, green, yellow and platinum fish as the fish can seem to handle the surface glitter effect well? In other words, the betagin can add to the dorsal patterned fish and the daiyagin can make a plain solid pattern more interesting.
The one thing that isn't appreciated by anyone is messy daiyagin as it is uneven/disorderly and light ( not deep in scale) and draws attention to it's imperfections. Hope this helps? JR

[MikeM]

Well, JR, while on the subject of kinginrin ... Here is a pic of what seems to be kado-gin. (?? Only read about kado-gin in books. Never previously saw it.) It causes the outer edge of each scale appear lighter in color than the remainder of the scale. The pic is of a nisai Sanke of Matsunosuke lineage. In person the effect is not the sparkle one expects from ginrin, but more a golden sheen around the edge of each scale. (I think it is temporary and will be gone by age 4 or 5?) The pic does not show the 'crystal' effect within each scale's edge very well, but it is present when viewed at the right angle.

[JasPR]

very cool Mike. Yep, kado gin is another type of niigata gin. It is a partial gin of strips on the outer edge of the scale. Yours is a great example. Many of this type show kado gin in uneven strips ( long stripes and short stripes) and spread over the fish's sides making it unattractive. But when you get one that is full ( in rows and remaining on dorsal area above lateral line) and uniform ( even strips on the upper third of the scale) the effect is quite lovely.
The Niigata gin ( all three types) are considered the most elegant but the least organized on the fish's body.
The Hiroshima gin ( one type but a couple of variations) is typically not as elegant as the northern versions but the Hiroshima gin ( Daiyagin ) seems better restricted to the dorsal area and therefore more intense.

JR

[Brutuscz]

I have a question. I have a marusho shiro utsuri that I examined and photographed up close recently. I noticed some shiny areas that i thought were stray ginrin scales. Upon closer inspection, it seemed to be coming from the skin...not the scales. Have you ever seen this kind of gin on a shiro utsuri? I never noticed it before.

[Brutuscz]

Some lousy pics!! Just curious if my thinking was correct.

[JasPR]

That would not be Gin then. Gin is a condition of scales that take on a glossy or shiny look. If they are embedded in beni the effect is 'golden'. If the scale is embedded in white or sumi areas of the skin, they give a truer silver effect. So you could be seeing a silver scale due to the effect of the glossly scale ( the ginrin genetic scale) combined white skin.
But koi do have stray silver scales ( true silver and not ginrin glossy) of course. This is really how ginrin was created in the first place in 1929. I wrote a post about this over on NI the other day.
Since you see no silver effect anywhere else on the fish I suspect it is not fukurin or silk skin you are seeing but rather the effect of the glossy ginrin scale on white skin.
I would also point out that just because a koi has a few ginrin scales or even twenty ginrin scales, unless they are organized in rows or dorsal groupings, the fish is not considered ginrin for show purposes.

[Brutuscz]

Thanks JR. I have wondered about it since taking these pictures, but never thought to ask. When I saw this thread, I figured I would put it out there.

[danzcool]

Okay, since we've broadened the subject from pearl ginrin to other ginrin types, I'm curious what type this is, is it betagin? Does anyone have additional examples of the ginrin types?

[JasPR]

Hi Dan, I'll post some pictures later. Your's is Niigata gin or the kado and the betagin types. You can see that there are two kinds of gin on your fish as well. The Niigata beta gin fills the whole scale with gin luster. These is concentrated on the front of the fish. As you travel along teh fish's body you see a considerable amount of 'half affected' scales. This is the ornamental boarder of ginrin typical in Kado ginrin. You can see the strips like an ornamental hand held fan at the ends of the scales.
In truth, you koi might be all kado gin with the stripes filling the scales on the front of the fish. Can't say for sure from the photo. But it is not at all unusual to see two types of ginrin on one fish. Martin from Holland once posted a ginrin with all three types of ginrin on the upper body! A disaster or a fascinating specimen depending on your pond of the view! LOls
Think of the betagin as a general description as a completely glossy scale and the kado as a decorative board accent on the scale. And inbetween we have cross over as a full kado covering the scale with stripes to excess and an incomplete glossy scale ( limited to a corner of half scale) which is a failed betagin. And these two can look very much alike until you examine the nature of what is there. JR