Judging Pearl Gin

[Sangreaal]

Compared to the high bling glitterings of the ubiquitous Hiroshima ginrin at shows, the pearl gin is very subtle; in fact, so subtle an effect as to seem, to me, to be of a whole different class. From the few that I have seen both in person and in photograph, the scaleage seems to be more closely related to Matsunosuke gin than any other.

Yet (to my limited knowledge), Matsunosuke gin is not judged in the ginrin class, but accepted as part and parcel of the quality of that koi's skin, scales, and pigmentation in its varietal class.

Wherein, then, would pearl gin fall? Surely its subtle but startling luminance cannot compare to the gilded and silvered brilliance of an outstanding Hiroshima, just like the best of Matsunosuke gin cannot hope to compete in ginrin class against some of the most glitteringly shiny koi in the world. Would a pearl gin kohaku perhaps be allowed to compete in the open kohaku classes, or would it be relegated to only ginrin class?

How is ginrin judged, actually? What exactly do judges look for when judging the ginrin itself? I know the "three rows of ginrin scales" stipulation, but surely that is simply the beginnings of what is sought after in the best representations of their types.

Inquiring minds have got to know....
Marie

[JasPR]

Marie, I think you have yourself a little mixed up? There is nothing about pearl ginrin that is similar to matsunosku gin. Not related to each other at all except to say they are both scale conditions involving silver in scales and that they line up in a row. But the lining up of all these glistening ginrin type scales is required and genetically typical. Only old Niigata gin is 'wild' and random.
Pearl , of course, is a single pearl shaped dot of silver on each scale. Matsunosuke gin is a full scale ( yamakoshi gin) in a single row or strip, typically located on peduncle or off shoulder area. And it is not in the required double rows and symetrical to be considered a ginrin fish. In fact, if it was not a trade name gin and being associated with silken skin, it would be a demerit! It is really not meant to be admired for being gin but rather recognized as an accent to silken skin.
Pearl however, is a ginrin type and is found in two or three balanced/symmetrical rows on the dorsal/above midline area of the body. You are right, it is subtle on most specimens but a good one is impressive.
Hope this helps and doesn't offend-- JR

[Sangreaal]

No offence taken whatsoever, JR. I posted to discuss this topic, not pontificate it with my personal theory on the subject.

I mention the similarity of Matsunosuke gin to the development of pearl gin because I am watching both types in my own pond. Every fish I have with pearl gin have Matsunosuke gin too. It (pearl gin) seems to be associated with convex rounded scales that also display Matsunosuke gin. It is not just contained to the first 3 rows of scales, it involves every scale. The fish that I have that display Matsunosuke gin but no "pearls" have relatively flat scales. The pearl of silver or gold (silver on shiro, gold on beni) occurs at the top corner of each scale, not the middle as many reports on pearl gin say--at least in the fish I have here AND the few pics I've seen of it on the net. And the pearls themselves are not striated like other forms of gin to create a glittering effect, they are more like extreme lustre collected in pearlescent bumps that shine at certain angles like strings of teensie Christmas lights twinkling down the length of the fish, and it is more brilliant in the cold weather months. It is very subtle yet startlingly beautiful at the same time.

I'm just trying to understand it, and I'd like to know how a judge would evaluate a good specimen against a more glitzy type of gin. That, and if I ever considered showing any of these fish, what class would be most appropriate? It is so different from any other type of gin that I just don't see the comparison....

Marie

[JasPR]

Great !

Having been to both Matsunsuke farms over many years and studying the lines both with my own purchases left there as well as the purchases of others I tend to travel with, I can tell you that the old matsunosuke line ( classic cigar shape with length in front of the dorsal and yellow/orange beni ) has given way to the newer silken skin with ginrin/fukurin look. But tama-gin is as rare as hens teeth in that line. In addition, the creator of tamagin, Sekiguchi San, did not use the Niigata gin to create it. And Niigata gin is closely linked to matsunosuke gin.

The other real dichotomy can be appreciated in the size of the fish showing each type.
Matsunosuke are of course, typically larger than average gosanke/sanke. The gin strip is intense in young ones and hangs in pretty well in adults due to that translucant silk skin.
Tama gin does not tend to have a very long life at all. With the effect being rare in mature adult fish. And it benefits from hard white shiro as it is such a subtle looking gin. I have noticed over the years that tamagin is usually associated with male fish of a young age? Now I can't say that it is a rule, as tamagin fish are rare and I have not seen all that many over the 54 shows I've judged. So when we do see one, we consider it's rareness. And since the odds of finding a really good one are even rarer, we consider that a special fish.
In either case and actually all cases, you do not want to have a show fish with more than one type of ginrin. That is not good. So breed for one type or the other and cull the ones that don't hold true to the goal. JR

[KoiCop]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sangreaal Every fish I have with pearl gin have Matsunosuke gin too. It (pearl gin) seems to be associated with convex rounded scales that also display Matsunosuke gin. It is not just contained to the first 3 rows of scales, it involves every scale.

Hmmm . . . if what you're describing is not associated with the Matsunosuke line, then having both kinds of gin would have to be a Rombold thing.

Would greatly appreciate seeing photos of, and hearing JR's take on, these combo'd fish?

[Sangreaal]

Thanks for your priceless education on pearl, or rather tamagin history and development, JR. I relish every scrap of information I can glean on this subject (and everything koi! ). I want to understand what it is that I have.

Ayup, Don. It's probably pic time. Mostly because I finally, out of literally thousands of pics taken, have an image of the Tigerlily with her lights on, and a very few of a tosai Kohaku from the same line with the same scale type. I'll share the Tigerlily first.

Here she is, just your basic kohaku at liberty in the pond:

You can see a few glints of gin near her dorsal, but look at the top of each scale--there's a little dull pewter dot.

Now she turns...

...and the lights start twinkling.

Here is a close up:


And another as the Matsunosuke gin kicks in:



When the tamagin is lit up, the Matsunosuke gin is not. When the Matsunosuke gin is lit, the tamagin is dark. It all depends on angle and lighting--one follows the other.

I'll dig up some pics of the younger kohaku. The effect does seem more pronounced in the smaller fish...

Marie

[Sangreaal]

Of course it occurs to me that maybe this isn't pearl gin or Matsunosuke gin at all, but sumpin' else....

[Sangreaal]

Here is Oriijin, a tosai Kohaku from the same line. This elusive ginrin is hard to capture, but here are some pics that display it in one form or another:

If you look closely you'll see that the pearls extend even below the lateral line of the fish.









And then there's the Tancho--only pic I have until it arrives. Tosai also, fresh out of the mud:

Not the best representation of Richard's work, but I had to have her for study of the skin and scale type so couldn't pass her up. I'll take more pics when she gets home.

Marie

[JasPR]

Good morning Marie. judging ginrin from pictures is always difficult. So please correct me if I've misread or misjudged.

The picture you seem to be calling matsunosuke gin is betagin? Matsunosuke gin is an accent stripe or two non symmetrical markings on silkened skin and usually includes fukurin at points/areas of the body. Matsunosuke gin does not qualify a fish to be entered as ginrin, even though technically it is a betagin ( covering the whole scale , flush to the surface and intense but 'non showy').

Tamagin is 'pearl' in that it is like a neckless but it also is isolated to the center or edge of the scale and raised slightly. The old tamagin was actually circular but that is not seen any more even by the original breeder. That line burnt out some years ago and is now being revived but the gin is now isolated to the scale edge and much more like betagin that is restricted to the edge of the scale.
Here is a picture from Nichirin, the ZNA member's magazine, that shows a modern version of tamagin.

Best, JR

[Sangreaal]

Been doing my homework this morning and found an interview with Masayuki Sekiguchi on the INPC website. Speaking of tamagin creation:

Sekiguchi Koi Farm was founded by my grandfather, Kosuke. He produced Kohaku, Taisho Sanke, and Asagi. At the time my father, Kazuo, worked in the dyeing business, but one time he saw a Koi called Tamagin, a variety with marble-like shine on the scales, and became captivated by Nishikigoi. He then started producing Nishikigoi on the side. The marbles on Tamagin were known to disappear at the age of 3, which was considered a defect, but my father was able to fix those beautiful marbles on their bodies. The marbles kept glowing, and they didn’t disappear as the Koi grew. A new variety named “Pearl Ginrin” was recognized. The whole family was thrilled when we won the Governor’s prize the first time we sent our Koi to the show. When you actually see our Koi, you would see that the patterns on the scales glow as if they were real pearls.
International Nishikigoi Promotion Center/Sekiguchi Koi Farm

I wonder where he found the first tamagin fish and who produced them. And I so wish there were pics of these early fish to give us some sort of limited idea of what they must have looked like then...