My planned showa breeding for next season!!

[bekko]

Quote: Wow, Is that right? Are those breeders in US or Japan??

Both US and Japan.

Quote: With the introduction of so much Kohaku and Sanke stock in Kindai quality development, how many "new" showa are still black based???

Probably very few. The offspring are still a mixture of black fry and white fry. However, the juveniles from black fry must be grown for much longer before their potential is revealed. I suspect most breeders just cull these instead of waiting on them. In koi breeding, time is money and space is money. You have to cull unacceptable fish as quickly as possible in order to make room for the good stuff.

Kindai have more striking colors. Kindai are less expensive to produce. Kindai are easier to market. Kindai are difficult to differentiate from a sanke. Real showa are a victim of identity theft and raising showa from black fry is a lost art.

-ste veho

[Brutuscz]

Last year...I bred goshiki-showa. Not just goshiki. I found the white-goshiki fry grew much faster. So much faster, they cannibalized the smaller black fry. I have only 3-5 of these fry left. The rest all look goshiki. Since they are being grown indoors with no natural food...growth is slow. The goshiki range from 2-6inches. The more showa looking ones are 1 inch.
For this years showa breeding..I was going to just keep the black fry. Now I am re-thinking that. Maybe the black fry...plus the largest of the white fry(kept separately to avoid canibalism). So, I'd end with some slow developing showa and some big kindai. This is simply for my own fun and education. What do you guys think?

[PapaBear]

I think it sounds like a good idea for the learning curve, BUT... you need to do something to boost the growth on the blackies. 1" is painfully small for this amount of time. Jump up the protein somehow to give 'em a better shot.

[Brutuscz]

The bigger ones are thick with nice conformation....and the little ones look like they hatched a month ago. Weird

[Super Kindai]

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko Both US and Japan. -ste veho

Thank you. I don't know well about US breeders but If you know breeders name in Japan, I (or my friends in there) can find it out......

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by bekko Both US and Japan. Probably very few. The offspring are still a mixture of black fry and white fry. However, the juveniles from black fry must be grown for much longer before their potential is revealed. I suspect most breeders just cull these instead of waiting on them. Real showa are a victim of identity theft and raising showa from black fry is a lost art. -ste veho

The breeders I buy showa from still keep all of the black fry.

[bekko]

It is easier to keep the black fry than fuss over culling them when thy are that small. But how many make it through the summer juvenile cullings?

-s

[luke frisbee]

this thread just sounds way too racist ...

Brutucz,
i think you got a good trio too start with...

And I don't understand why the development of your black fry is so arrested

[PapaBear]

Speaking of arrested development, I netted a few escapee from our last spawn out of the puddle they were hatched in last week. 9 in all, with the largest being about 5" or so but the "runt" of the litter was just over 1" long.Never seen one that small at 5 months old Miniature Chagoi

[Brutuscz]

Quote: Originally Posted by luke frisbee this thread just sounds way too racist ... Brutucz, i think you got a good trio too start with... And I don't understand why the development of your black fry is so arrested

Yeah..the black fry growth was awful...and most were eaten. I think I will just keep black fry with this next breeding. Maybe keep a few of the larger white fry, but completely separate. I would love to win an award one day on a koi I bred at home. I just think the growth of my home breds will never be great. This is simply because they are kept in indoor pools with no natural food at all. Pushing growth with this type of setup is really not an option. Keeping the water quality good was very difficult. The water changes are tough because temperature is a big issue for small fry. Still...all in all, it was fun.