The differences between a water garden and a koi pond.

[jnorth]

Quote: Originally Posted by mikegarcia As a gesture of good will, I am requesting someone write a brief article on the difference between KOI Ponds and Water Gardens. I will make sure it gets published, or perhaps direct me to the specific information page which I can glean the info and disseminate to landscape contractors.

This is from another thread and is worthy of its own thread. Please keep this thread informational only. Any antagonistic comments will be deleted. Thanks and yes I know this information is readily available on all the koi boards. Lets just put it all into one thread here and be done with it.

[KoiCop]

Mike . . .

In Koi Nations Magazine (Jun/Jul 2007) you'll find an article by James Reilly entitled, "Understanding and Maintaining a Modern Koi Pond: The key to understanding koi is to give them an environment they can survive in -- so what are the elements necessary for a dedicated koi pond? And why are they so essential?"

It's an excellent treatise which provides, I'm sure, just the overview you're looking for.

Or maybe JR would be kind enough to post it here on this thread?

[MikeM]

A water garden has the primary purpose of growing aquatic and marginal plants, with any fish being accents. A koi pond has the primary purpose of raising koi to their maximum potential.

Let's look at what is needed for the water garden to thrive. The water should be relatively shallow, say 24"-30". This is because most aquatic plants do best in shallow water. There are very few that can take a depth of 3' over the substrate. The pond should be in full sun. A minimum of 6 hours of sun is generally recommended... 8 hours of sun is better. The plants should be planted in a rich soil. It is generally recommended that waterlilies be fertilized monthly during the growing season. The water in the lily pond should be relatively still. Currents are disruptive of plant growth. High nutient levels in the pond water are a good thing. It can lead to an algae bloom, but if the waterlilies' leaves spread over the surface, the reduction in light will keep the algae under control. Marginal plants, such as rushes, iris and the like, prefer to have their roots spread, with the top 4" or so of the substrate being the preferred root zone. Several can do well with their roots forced to grow downward 12", but it is the top zone of the substrate that is most biologically active.

Now, does any of that sound optimal for koi?

[MCA]

Well said Mike!

A garden....is a landscaping device designed to house and display plants. So a water garden is about aquatic plants.

A koi pond is one that is designed for LARGE RIVERINE carp. To emulate a river you need depth, volume, and serious current.

Either pond type is fine to own. But they make a poor substitute for each other.

[mstrseed]

Water garden with Koi.................................I was told 2' was enough by the local water garden place.



Unfinished Koi pond, 8'+, bottom drains, TRP's, huge filtration.......this is from what I learned after I found out what a "Koi Pond" was....................... any questions?

[MysticKoi]

Quote: Either pond type is fine to own. But they make a poor substitute for each other.

Or... a compromise when you combine the two (a hybrid)! A water garden is compromised when koi are introduced; they often tear things up and eat the plants. And a koi pond is compromised with the introduction of plants; they add additional organics and debris to the pond.

[Campcheryl]

JR has been my mentor for many years and here is something he wrote awhile back about koi ponds and water gardens.

A koi pond is a body of water that caters to the needs and likes of koi. It has:

1) a turn over rate so that the loads of ammonia produced by the koi get to a filter rapidly and regularly before this toxin damages the gills.
2) It has a current to it so that no waste settles on the bottom and rots there, creating a proliferation of disease causing organisms. This movement, especially at the water surface mixes all levels within the pond and encourages high gas exchange- good gas in ( oxygen) bad gas out ( carbon dioxide, nitrogen gases)
3) a large and deep body of water. Large so that rain and night chill, day time sun and other forms of precipitation do not pull water temperatures and pH around too abruptly, leading to stress and disease in the process. Especially if point #2 is not right and bacteria counts are abnormally high in the water column.
A pond is also large and deep because koi grow large. If a 24-28 inch fish is to swim, act and grow normally it needs water at least twice as deep as its length- minimum. Koi also love to forage and work their way around their environment. This becomes impossible in an eight foot wide pond.

A water garden on the other hand, has conditions that cater to plants and small species of hardy fish and amphibians.
It is shallow, heats in warm weather, attracts insects and amphibians- mostly because the water moves slower than a koi pond. PH and high temperature don’t matter much nor does depth. In fact, my plant friends tell me lilies like slow moving water. And I KNOW plants like carbon dioxide in the water and slightly acid conditions.

So if you look beyond what is stuck in some ponds and focus on inhabitants needs, you can quickly determine what animals that body of water is good for and therefore what it should be called. Yes? JR


Maybe this is short and to the point that Mike Garcia was looking for.

[lildude]

A pond that contains koi fish,


..has maintenance is at a absolute minimum that doesn't need/require people to come out that you pay 500+ dollars each year for maintenance.

small koi ponds dont have rocks on the bottom, less than 35,000 gallons. if the pond was bigger than it would be much more understandable and probably would matter as much, since the ration to koi and water is much different.

...is well designed to enable to owner/attender of the koi pond to actually "enjoy" their pond. someting that 99% of most watergardeners with koi in their pond cant do.

yea, that about sums it up.


A watergarden is everything opposite to what I have mentioned above.


Do I think that people can have a pond somewhere in between the two extremes and be ok? yes I do.

[Graham]

The difference is in the intregity of the people that are installing it...they all know the difference or they are completely stupid..........the mom and pop rockers are just interested how much $$ they can make... ADI trained hundreds of them ... a very few like Mike are trying to get away from that type of pond.

There's no question that there is a place for the back yard puddle, but the home owner needs choices and not marketing bs, ...not something easy to do with IPPCA and their very baised troll owners....

[jnorth]

In case you missed this one from JR.

Quote: Originally Posted by JasPR Here ya go Mike— simple enough? Every living thing has fundamental requirements to live a normal healthy life. Most people understand this instinctively and would not try and keep a Great Dane in a two bedroom apartment or a horse in a car port. But when it comes to our fishy friends it is not always so obvious to the new pond owner. We do know not to try and keep saltwater angel fish in fish bowls but things getting trickier for most when assessing the needs of one pond fish over another. I’d like to talk about koi for a moment. Everyone can envision a tranquil oriental styled pond filled with the splashing colors of the exotic Japanese koi. But do you know what koi need to live the long life they are legendary for? Is it the same need as the little goldfish we all grew up owning? The short answer is , No. And even though many have imagined the goldfish and the koi as being one in the same, they are quite different in their needs. The goldfish is a highly adaptable creature, living in shallow water of minimal quality and quite happy in a water garden setting. Their small size and hardy nature allow then to live among the plants with only a small filter or waterfall and moderately running water to provide for oxygen needs and ammonia removal. Water gardens with sloped sides and depths of 10 inches to 36 inches are fine. And water turn over as infrequent as six times a day will be adequate to keep one goldfish per 20-25 gallons of water. Some of the common varieties of comets can be quite attractive and the bright red/orange, the sarassa comet ( red and white), the true yellow comet and the blue shubunkin ( calico comet) should be able to satisfy even the most color hungry pond owner! These hardy fish require only minimal care and are well suited for the average water garden and backyard pond of 50- 2000 gallons. The koi pond is a completely different type pond however. And this due to the fact that koi are completely different fish than goldfish. Typically build with straight walls, these 4 feet plus deep ponds ( 5- 6 ft deep being ideal) are designed with the requirements of a much larger fish in mind - the koi. The perspective koi owner must know that the koi they see in the pet stores and garden center is the ‘baby version’ of a koi, and typically only in the first year of life. Adult koi, if allowed to grow to full size without stunting them ( a practice deemed cruel by many established koi keepers) is a minimum of 20 inches long, with 28 inches or large being common. So these are powerful fish known to be strong swimmers and great jumpers who can easily launch themselves from the sloping sides of a garden pond. They also benefit from a pond environment where they can swim up and down as well as across the pond. The depth of the pond allows them to feed off the top as well as forage off the bottom of the pond. The depth also provides other benefits which we will discuss in a moment– Koi are intensively bred for their colors above hardiness and are not as strong as the sturdy goldfish. As a result, they require better water conditions along with more stable water conditions. Again, a large volume of water extending deep into the soil insures more stable water conditions and water temperatures and guards against changes created by large rainfalls and chilly night air. And as large active fish , koi are also MUCH messier fish than their tiny goldfish cousins. They love nothing better than to root out the soil in planters in search of worms and other insects. And they have ravenous appetites. All this requires a good filter of considerable size and also a water current that will discourage any of the koi’s handiwork from settling to the pond bottom to decay and cause pollution. And of course, as large animals the amount of personal waste produced is considerable. To facilitate this waste removal all modern koi ponds must come equipped with a drain at the bottom of the pond. And as the pond gets larger ( 5,000- 12,000 are ideal size ranges), several drains may be used to insure both adequate water flow to the filters and a good continuous sweeping of the pond floor. The frequency of the ponds flow rate through the filters is also very important. Ideally, all the water in a koi pond should move through the prefilter and biological filtration system a minimum of once every two hours. This guarantees that water will be exchanged throughout the pond and that waste will be carried to the filters as the koi produce it. As koi and biological filters benefit greatly from maximum oxygen levels in the water, a turn over rate of once every two hours guarantees a mixing of water and frequent contact of that water with the surface where oxygen enters the system most readily. This article is meant to present some basic differences between a water garden feature/ goldfish pond and a modern koi pond and is not intended to be a complete ‘how to’ on koi pond building. Details of filtration vary but basic principles are included in the variations. Garden pond and koi pond comparison: Garden pond - small, typically 100- 3500 gallons Koi pond - large, typically 3500- 12,000 gallons or larger. Garden ponds- natural or formal design. Often bowl shaped with pebbles in the base. Slopped sides and typically with a depth fo less than 3 feet. Koi Pond - natural or formal with straight sides and of a greater depth with 3 feet being minimum with depths of 4- 6 being most common. Garden ponds- lightly filtered with biological filters incorporated in simple inpond filters, skimmers or within an artificial waterfall. Plants are part of the setting. Koi ponds- heavily filter with extensive use of bottom drains, skimmers, prefilters, biological chambers and large high circulation pumps and associated plumbing to accomplish required turnover rates. Plants are typically absent in a koi pond as the water is deep and fast moving, a poor environment for most blooming plants.