Some help please...cold water deaths!!!

[KoiCop]

Bob . . .

If -- and I repeat if -- it's just a matter of cold water stress, then bringing them in, warming them up and feeding them some easy to digest food is all one needs to do.

And then you can plan on keeping them inside all winter.

[Brutuscz]

Quote: Originally Posted by KoiCop Bob . . . If -- and I repeat if -- it's just a matter of cold water stress, then bringing them in, warming them up and feeding them some easy to digest food is all one needs to do. And then you can plan on keeping them inside all winter.

It sounds like a plan...They will definitely stay inside this winter. Hopefully, the rest will stay fine. The bottom of the pond rose a degree to 37. I had no parasite problems this season...so, I'd be surprised to see one now. If I don't like the way things look..I have my scope ready. I've read on a few boards about people with the exact same problem...same symptoms and warming worked well. Hope I'm lucky with these two. All advice is appreciated.

[Auntiesue]

Quote: Originally Posted by KoiCop I hear what you're saying about cold water stress, Sue, but here's the thing: It's only December. From what I've read, healthy fish in a healthy pond going into winter normally wouldn't be showing this level of stress this soon? That's why I think there's another dynamic going on here, perhaps one that's related to their condition prior to going into winter?

Oh I totally agree!! Everything should be looked at before deciding it's simply the cold. If I remember correctly (without going back and reading all the posts) there was a sudden cold snap. Even in the early months of winter, I've seen fish react to changes in water temps that have not been that cold. As often is said, these fish are individuals and each will respond differently. I suspect, but won't say for absolute surety, that this is cold water stress related. If anything else, the water will have to be warmed up anyway to treat any parasite issues, so why not get a head start on it now and bring the fish inside, warm her up and see what you find?

[KoiCop]

Bob . . .

As for the routine you used for a 'very gradual' warmup, this from Bonita's experience posted on KoiVet this morning:

That Koi went from 37 degree pond water directly into 53 degree tap water and by the next morning the water had warmed to 68 degrees. In 14 hours she warmed by over 30 degrees. This Koi has been just fine staying outside over winter every year since that time.

FYI.

[Brutuscz]

For the gradual re-warming, I put them in a tank of their own water. I am periodically adding ziplock bags filled with ice to float on the surface. I also placed a sheet of styrofom on the surface. This has made it warm-up very slowly. so far, so good. I just hope the bottom of the pond comes up another 2 deg to 39. I notice that in the tanks...when the water hit this temp, they could right themselves.
Anyone ever try a solar cover to float on part of the surface? Maybe this would help cut down on the wind and bring it up a few degrees?

[Auntiesue]

Quote: Originally Posted by KoiCop Bob . . . As for the routine you used for a 'very gradual' warmup, this from Bonita's experience posted on KoiVet this morning: That Koi went from 37 degree pond water directly into 53 degree tap water and by the next morning the water had warmed to 68 degrees. In 14 hours she warmed by over 30 degrees. This Koi has been just fine staying outside over winter every year since that time. FYI.

37 degrees to 53 degrees directly? I would be very suspicious of this being true without resulting death.

[KoiCop]

Sue . . .

Like I said, this was from Bonita (a Super Moderator and experienced ponder) on KoiVet this morning -- and I have no reason not to believe her.

She was relating an experience she had, not giving advice; but still . . .

[JasPR]

warming up quickly ( 5 degrees an hour) is not unreasonable. We used to go by 2-3 degrees an hour in this hobby. But that is from the tropical fish hobby and does not apply to koi, as it turns out.
Many hobbyists have observed one common thing- koi experience no ill effect of even as much as a 10 degree transfer UPWARD- meaning from cooler to warmer water. But they do tend to react badly to moves down in temperature of ten degrees or more.
But all this has to be taken against the backdrop of what condition the fish are in. If they are weak and showing signs of equlibrium loss and red skin, I would not test/challenge their metabolisms by transfer to any extreme, up or down- temperature, pH or even hardness. Slow and steady is much better for weak koi.
The very best way to do this is to get a little giant and run some pondwater inside to the QT tank ( 1000 plus gallons). Then transfer the fish to that 'known' water. You then can allow the water to climb in temperature. A large body of water will take hours to rise to ambient levels indoors. JR

[Russell Peters]

Quote: Originally Posted by Auntiesue 37 degrees to 53 degrees directly? I would be very suspicious of this being true without resulting death.

I have gone from 48 degrees to 78 in an hour. The Koi loved it and are doing fine.

[Brutuscz]

Still acclimating slowly...and they are doing well. Every few hours, I am adding a bag of ice to slow down the acclimating. I started at 36 deg yesterday, It was 52deg tonight. By tommorow it should be 60..like my indoor quarantine tanks. I will then transfer them. So far so good. I just wish I had done it this way with the two others that died. Once again, live and learn...the hard way as always!!!
I still can't believe this happened. Just when you think you have things under contol and down to a science..BOOM!!!